[Insight to the Hybrid Era]

Hello All,

I replaced the 12 volt battery in my 2004 CVT insight that I bought last weekend. And now it starts and runs. I drove it 50 minutes to work and 50 minutes back. The battery is not charging, and I’m not familiar with not having an alternator. I searched through the forum and did find much specific info on troubleshooting a problem with the 12 volt charging system. I’d really appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction!

I’ve heard rumors of cutting certain wires…. Yikes!

also, the IMA battery is disconnected and the car is in gas only mode!

thank you in advance!

 

[Joule]

Is the IMA light on? Going through this now with code P1443. High voltage contactor issue. I'm changing the junction board on my pack and hope it resolves the issue.

 

[mudder]

If "the IMA battery is disconnected and the car is in gas only mode", then the DCDC converter (i.e. the "alternator") won't work. If you don't have an IMA battery (or if you do and it's dead), then you need to search this forum for "How to remove your IMA battery completely".

 

[Insight to the Hybrid Era]

This is how it was when I bought it. These two connectors were unplugged when I bought it.
I’m trickle charging the 12 volt when I get work, and when I get home. I have to drive home at night and when I get home the voltage is 11 volts… so it is really hard on the battery.
I want to make a good video of how to fix this and post it so other newbs can fix this in a pleasant to watch video. I hope that doesn’t make the next generation of first generation owners too soft, aye?!

thanks for helping me, y’all!

 

[mudder]

In the picture you posted, plug the left connector back in and the DCDC will (probably) charge the 12 volt battery again... unless the battery is totally hosed.

 

[Insight to the Hybrid Era]

I gave it a shot. But didn’t notice any charging happening at idle. I didn’t run it up to speed. And I don’t know about the condition of the IMA battery.
Should it charge at idle? Or will it need to have regenerative braking to charge the IMA battery?

I’m going to get a little cigarette lighter volt meter so I can see if it charges while driving at speed.

 

[mudder]

The IMA battery will not charge unless both of those connectors are plugged in. However, given that those plugs are disconnected, that means the previous owner knew the IMA battery was totally hosed. You could try grid charging it, but most likely you'll need a new battery.

 

[*sean*]

I want to make a good video of how to fix this and post it

Welcome to the forum! Because of the substantial loss of power especially when you may really depend on it, (and this is especially important with the CVT where you don't have control of the shift points) the correct fix is to replace the IMA battery with a new one that has as long a warranty as one can get. When this is not done, there is also the problem of the 12V battery not charging when idle or at high RPM. This could lead to someone getting stranded. The CVT is a great car with a good IMA battery; with a bad IMA battery it is an awful car.

bumblebee battery installation video

 

[Insight to the Hybrid Era]

The car came with another IMA battery of unknown status. Is there an established process for testing an IMA battery? I’m guess I can’t swing by NAPA and have them throw a tester on it! Haha

 

[jime]

You could grid charge the unknown battery for 30-36 hours, or until the voltage no longer rises, and take measurements of the tap voltages. This is about the only way to really tell anything about the battery without putting it into a car. There are several threads on the subject of measurements. This one came readily to hand:

Tap voltages/stick pairs worksheet

I came up with this worksheet while checking tap voltages for a new, but sitting indoors and unused for two years, BB battery that is misbehaving after finally being installed. Let me know if you see any errors or have suggestions otherwise.

www.insightcentral.net

Of course, your battery needs to have the junction board and battery cables installed for this to work.

Before charging, check and see what origin of battery might be. You can shine a flashlight through the fan and see the color of the battery sticks. If they are orange or yellowish, and there is a Panasonic or Primearth label on the left front mounting fork, then you probably have a Honda sourced pack. Any other color and it is rebuilt with Chinese sticks and many not respond well to grid charging. Sometimes these Chinese sticks have shorted cells or leak. If such, it could catch on fire. I've had it happen to me.

 

[mudder]

FYI: If grid charging doesn't work out for you (on either pack you have), I have a set of probably-good NiMH sticks that I just removed from a personal car a couple weeks ago. I removed them because I installed LiBCM into that car.

These NiMH sticks were purchased from Honda (by a previous owner) in 2016. Note that Honda refurbishes sticks, rather than supplying new ones. They were working quite strong when I removed them from the car (no IMA lights, etc). They're probably in very good condition, but I don't have the time or the energy to back that claim up. I was able to drive up a 2000' mountain with assist the whole way up, and then regened the whole way down.

If you want them - and are willing to drive to Chattanooga - you can have them for $100. Otherwise, they're just going to sit in a box in the corner of my garage until I eventually send them to Eli.

 

[Insight to the Hybrid Era]

Chattanooga, hun? I’m in Memphis…. That might be the way to go. I want to bench test the second IMA battery. I think I figured out how to do it. But I am wondering if there are any posts that detail it specifically. I don’t seem to be able to search through the forum very effectively.
I found a video from Peter Perkins that goes over how to build a grid charger. But I just want a simple guide for bench testing the IMA battery first.

 

[mudder]

insightcentral's search function is... terrible.
To search this site, I recommend a google search with the following syntax (e.g. search term "grid charging"):
grid charging site:insightcentral.net

FYI: grid charging NiMH is a huge time sink.

 

[Insight to the Hybrid Era]

Is the IMA light on? Going through this now with code P1443. High voltage contactor issue. I'm changing the junction board on my pack and hope it resolves the issue.

How did things go for you? What is the news?

 

[Joule]

Swapping the junction board completely solved the issue. Scott K was able to supply me with a used one. Trouble free operation since then. Apologies for not closing the loop on that one.

But bear in mind that I have a fully functioning IMA pack, that I had grid charged and knew would hold that charge.

 

[Insight to the Hybrid Era]

Hello All,

I swapped out the unknown IMA battery and now I the Charge/Assist lights indicate they are functioning. I was able to drive without an IMA light for about 10 minutes, and then it came on. But most critically, I still can't charge the 12volt battery. I started a 30ish mile trip with 12.5 volts, and by the time I came back it was 10.5. Boo!

I have codes P0135, P1443, and P1648.

I'm wondering if it is like Joule's non functioning High voltage contactor? He changed his junction board and was good to go. Where can I get a junction board? and for how much?

Thanks!

 

[mudder]

P0135 Oxygen sensor (nothing to do with IMA)
P1443 High voltage contactor stuck closed (this can happen if GRN/BLK wire heading to DCDC isn't connected).
P1648 One of the two data signals in the IMA bay isn't present (either BATTSCI or METSCI)

Sounds a lot like bad ground straps.
Could also be a blown IMA fuse.

 

[retepsnikrep]

IIRC P1443 also happens when the dc-dc HV is not physically connected as that discharges the big filter caps when you turn the car off.
If the DC-DC fuse is blown or it is not connected then the filter caps don't get discharged on ign off quickly enough and you can get a stuck contactor warning.

 

[Insight to the Hybrid Era]

here is a little video of me driving the car,
Insight battery voltage after driving 35 minutes

Is there a test for the ground straps or should I just replace them?

is there is a test for the high voltage contactor, and fuse I can make?

Is there a place to download a wiring diagram to locate all of the mentioned parts?

P0135 Oxygen sensor (nothing to do with IMA)
P1443 High voltage contactor stuck closed (this can happen if GRN/BLK wire heading to DCDC isn't connected).
P1648 One of the two data signals in the IMA bay isn't present (either BATTSCI or METSCI)

Sounds a lot like bad ground straps.
Could also be a blown IMA fuse.

 

[mudder]

Ground strap test:
Connect constant current power supply to both ends of ground strap. Place voltage meter on both ends of ground straps, making sure they don't touch the constant current leads. Push 10 amps through ground strap. Measured voltage should be less than 50 mV. Repeat for all ground straps.

Fuse Test:
Place constant current power supply to both ends of fuse. Push 10 amps through fuse. Measure voltage across fuse. Should read less than 20 mV.

Don't have a constant current power supply? Get a 10 watt, 1 Ohm resistor and place it it series with each DUT (e.g. ground strap, fuse, etc). Connect DUT+resistor to 12 volt battery.

My version of the IMA wiring diagrams is here:
G1_Honda_Insight_IMA/OEM G1 Honda Insight IMA Wiring at master · doppelhub/G1_Honda_Insight_IMA

Honda's entire schematic is here:

Insight-Service-Manual/Electrical at master · doppelhub/Insight-Service-Manual

Contribute to doppelhub/Insight-Service-Manual development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com