[Guest]

Hi All:

___I had a strange mpg/fuel capacity problem pop up this morning … I started to fill her up and began cleaning the windows … After a bit, I thought “that’s strange, the pump is still running?”. I went and checked the pump and it was just passing 13.0 gallons!

___I was gunning for my first 1,000 mile tank and hit it although I only had maybe 5 - 10 miles worth of fuel left (115 miles after the low fuel light). Instead of filling up with ~ 11 - 11.2 gallons as expected, it took all of 13.436 gallons! I always top off the Ford, Toyota, and Acura and they have a hell of a reserve up into the vapor canister’s tubing but the Insight has always taken between 10.6 and 11.0 gallons with fuel right up to the edge of the filler neck. I spoke with the BP stations attendant but of course he only said our pumps are mandated by state law to be accurate so that is how much fuel you filled up with …

___With that, I have a real world calculated mpg of just 74.83 mpg = 1005 miles/13.436 gallons. My Trip A and B showed 90.0 mpg over the 1005 miles and with individual segment trips as shown below, it was or should have been just about dead on.

(2) ~ 200 mile segment mpg’s of 91.1 and 78.4 respectively, (6) ~ 95 + mile segments of 86, 87, 91, 91, 102, and 105 mpg over the course of 5 days in temps ranging from 27 degrees to 82 degrees F.

___The dead on part should have been almost dead on except for the 13.436 gallons? Either that particular BP station (Bolingbrook, IL) took me for 2 + gallons of regular unleaded or I might have a 1200 + mile range on the next tank? I only saw this anomaly one other time on my first fill after picking the car up from Sioux Falls, SD as described here: Lmpg and instantaneous mpg confusion ???

___Has anyone ever filled up their little beauties with > 13 gallons of fuel? I didn’t think it was possible until this morning and if not, I know a particular BP station I will be speaking to again in the morning …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:j74g7p4k][email protected][/email:j74g7p4k]

 

[dan]

Hi xcel-

I don’t know if you have the same kind of gas pumps as we do out here, the kind with 2 hoses to the spout, where the second hose has a vacuum and is supposed to capture the vapors from the tank? If you do I have heard stories about them sucking gas back out of the tank while it is filling. I don’t know anyone it has happened to though.

 

[Guest]

Hi Dan:

___This was an older converted AMOCO to BP and they didn’t have the newer vapor recovery type nozzles. The Insight was sitting at a slight nose down angle when filling and I wonder if this could have prevented the vapor line ball check from seating properly to prevent fuel from filling the entire vapor recovery canister assembly and tubing? It simply had to fill that tubing or the stations pumps were that far off? I find the stations pumps being that far off to be highly unlikely as there would be people stringing up the owner given today’s gas prices I would have to assume? If the next tank is dead on, I think a nice letter to BP with a copy of this thread attached should suffice. The IL. Attorney General loves to hear about this stuff as well but I doubt a stations owner would rig a pump to be ~ 20% off?

___Thank you for the reply. Do you have any other ideas?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1lttlqgl][email protected][/email:1lttlqgl]

 

[dan]

No other ideas. 20% is a lot, I doubt any station would try to get away with that much intentionally
Maybe there is state dept. of weights & measures certificate on the pump. Good luck!

 

[Resist]

It is very possible to get more than the rated 10.6 gallons of fuel in an Insight. Some gas will flll into the evaporation canister. Didn't think you get 13 gallons though, so that makes me wonder if the gas station isn't on the level.

 

[Rick Reece]

Well in 103 fillups the most I have ever pumped is around 10.7 gallons. Most of my fillups are around 10.3 gallons with no bars of fuel showing. Have fun, Rick

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Not to accuse anybody but there were cases a few years back in California (?) where illegal chips were installed in pumps. Many states only check pump accuracy at fixed volumes. As I remember the news article 1 & 10 gals. These chips correctly pumped at the tested volumes. As I remember a very old post in a yahoo group there is about a 1 gal capacity in the vapor separator. How you may have managed 13+ gal will only be proven by the next fill-up and averaging the 2 tanks MPG.

HTH!

 

[cakley]

:? I guess I fill my car up to early. I always get 9.x gallons.



A trick that I did to my 2003 Jetta TDI was to remove the expansion vent. It allowed for an 1-1.5 gallon increase. But this is only wise to fill up before a long trip. Not suggestedfor the Insight.

 

[dan]

Hi All-

I googled “gasoline pump fraud” and “gas station fraud” last night. I did not get anything worth linking to. There were several state gov. warnings about checking to see that the numbers at the pump add up and are the same as posted. But there was little to indicate whether or not this has been a problem. I did find a couple references to the instance referred to by Insightful Trekker, and a couple about a dealer who was selling regular as premium, but no other specific references to inaccurate pumps (in the first few pages of hits).

 

[Insightful Trekker]

And as I further remember some of the evidence was that of a video tape of the pumps display. You could clearly see (as it was reported) the speed of the gallons dispensed vary in relationship to the sale amount. And as I remember it wasn't widespread. The situation was revealed when a regular customer refused to believe that his car took so much additional fuel.

I can't help it, but find myself looking at these readouts and watching for such sometimes.

 

[dan]

Insightful Trekker- You have a good memory.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

It worked for me this time.

(no I didn't cheat and google the answer)

Too bad it isn't more reliable though. Just look at some of my oops posts in here. <g>


EDIT: And if it had been as sharp as I would have liked I would have said;

While recently watching the readout I have noticed that the sale amount seems to be speeding up or the gallons amount is slowing down. <VBG>

But I missed 2 opportunities. Couldn't resist the third.

 

[Guest]

Hi All:

___It appears as if 13.436 gallons into the little beauty might be accurate?

___I am currently 322.2 miles out and the fuel gauge is still registering full. If I can just maintain a 90 mpg tank, this could turn out to really be something kind of neat … I just don’t know how I am going to do it again? Maybe jack up the rear end about 2 feet and fill it up

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1w355c4l][email protected][/email:1w355c4l]

 

[Willie Williford]

The simplist solution would be to contact the local "weights and measures" section of the local government and report it to them.

Theres a hefty fine for pump fraud.

 

[b1shmu63]

Yes, but how would you explain 322 miles on zero gas? Perhaps you have discovered the worlds first verifiable cold fusion reaction. :lol:

 

[Guest]

Hi B1shmu63:

___That is where the extra 2.4 gallons came from … I am usually in the mid 100 mile range before I see the first bar drop off. We shall see today anyway. I have a 32 - 35 sustained mph headwind to drive through in less then 5 minutes

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:f9ng136w][email protected][/email:f9ng136w]

 

[Billy]

Hi Wayne; Yes, indeed I have also put in 13.2 gallons, on BOTH of the Insights I have owned. I have found that if I persist, keep trying to top it off, that once in awhile it goes into this "mystery mode" and wil except another 2.7 gallons or so. At first I thought it was pump digital error, but I confirmed it several times; it really can hold 13 gallons under certain conditions. But don't ask me where all the gas goes.........Billy

 

[Mitch]

13 gal.

I too have pumped in over 13 gallons on several occasions, with the most being ~13.2. A handful more times over 12. The EVAP cannister fills up, and it's huge, adding an extra 2.7+ gallons. This situation of the cannister allowing itself to fill up seems to take place only at older gas stations, and only when there is very little gas left in the tank. This scenario is not an Insight-only phenomenon, as I managed to do likewise with a Chevrolet rental car 2 years ago.

 

[Guest]

Hi Billy and Mitch:

___Thank you, thank you, and thank you again … I thought I was losing my mind but the fuel gauge is proving to be accurate (this means pretty darn good). I am finally down 3 bars from Full w/ Trip A and B showing 512.6 miles out and a 93.7 mpg trip average. I am heading for 1,200 miles on this tank if my little beauty likes it or not

___Mitch, I like your past remembrances of older gas stations and on or near minimum/low fuel. The BP in Bolingbrook, IL. was exactly that in terms of stations. One of those older types with just the little bulletproof windowed shack in the middle of the pumps … I was definitely within 5 - 15 miles of empty as well. I sure wish I could repeat this because filling up after 1,200 - 1,300 miles is simply outrageous!

___Does anyone remember reading anything similar in the Yahoo-Honda Hybrid groups from years gone by? I am driving my tank to the bottom each and every drive from now on if that is the secret. I wonder where and how you come up with a station that has a slight shallow angle forward (nose down) and slower filling, older pumps? I know of at least one BP but they are $0.15 to expensive vs. the BP at home and the one near work

___Good Luck and thanks to you both.

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:l4nkkeqd][email protected][/email:l4nkkeqd]

 

[Rick Reece]

I recall a yahoo group member that routinely filled the evap canister to get the increased range. He didn't reach 1200 miles on a tank of gas however. Don't recall him reporting any problems. Have fun, Rick