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So, my 345K mile car just burst a line. It's spent it's entire life here in Michigan in salt. Right now, it been demoted to strictly winter beater, being driven from Thanksgiving to Easter. Not sure if it's really worth fixing or calling it good, walking away and finding another lower mile car. Given the mileage, now it's become a game of, how far will it go. I really should walk away, but not sure I can, lol.

So, currently entertaining buying a complete set of stainless brake and fuel lines to install. In addition, probably replacing the rubber brake lines with OEM units.

My question is, for those of you than have done the fuel and brake lines, are there specific fuel/brake specific fasteners/clips that you'd recommend replacing? or were they largely all reused?

If I do go the route to replace all the lines, I'd like to get the pile of parts together prior to tearing it apart. Critical would the fasteners.
 

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For the random clips like you mention, I got under the car and visually inspected what I could prior to taking everything apart and ordering lines. I ended up replacing the fuel tank straps, for example, because I knew I would drop it anyway and they were very rusty. It was hard to figure out all the clips so what I ordered didn't end up exactly matching what I needed. I rehabbed old clips, replaced a bunch of rusty bolts securing them, and improvised some new clips where needed. There was somewhere near the 12V battery that the old clips didn't work with the SS lines, as I recall, so I just made something. I imagine it'll be hard to get all the parts perfect, but you can probably get them figured out to your satisfaction with an inspection beforehand.
 

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Can anyone verify what size lines the brake lines are? Are they all the same size?

If we happen to get a short warm spell that falls around a weekend, I'd love to just splice in a patch to the line (Assuming it's in a spot that's reachable and easily patched) and hold off on the total replacement until spring/summer gets here. At the moment, I'm not 100% where its leaking. Hoping it's underneath the passenger area, which would be easy to reach. My guess is I got damage from an animal or ice chunk here in the last few months. Despite the case the car is subject to salt, the engine has leaked enough oil over time, the underside of the car is coated. LOL, self serve fluid film.
 

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Our Insight was parked due to loosing brakes, Pulled it into the garage last night and gas was leaking out under the passenger rear. Betting both issues is rotted lines.

Also at the same point as Morpheus, Is it worth sinking the time and money into? Still have rear brakes to check since something let go in one of them as well as an oil leak around the front crank.

This Insight has been one of my favorite vehicles but the last so many years it is one thing after another.
 

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Can anyone verify what size lines the brake lines are? Are they all the same size?

If we happen to get a short warm spell that falls around a weekend, I'd love to just splice in a patch to the line (Assuming it's in a spot that's reachable and easily patched) and hold off on the total replacement until spring/summer gets here. At the moment, I'm not 100% where its leaking. Hoping it's underneath the passenger area, which would be easy to reach. My guess is I got damage from an animal or ice chunk here in the last few months. Despite the case the car is subject to salt, the engine has leaked enough oil over time, the underside of the car is coated. LOL, self serve fluid film.
I just received my SS Tubes brake line replacement set and they are all marked 3/16

They are really nice, for the price I can't imagine going through all the trouble to fab up your own lines using Cu-Ni. Plus Cu-Ni probably should be supported at closer intervals than the original stiff steel ones.

Patching is doable but not like patching fuel line... the pressure can reach 1000psi so a couple hose clamps isn't going to cut it. You need to make a proper hydraulic connection, and the effort to do so might be more than the effort to replace the whole line. I'm guessing when you start looking at your brake and fuel lines you're going to see more rust at more places than you expect.
 

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Just finished this job. I'd estimate I used three full days (8 hours x 3) although that included some extra work like sandblasting and painting my old caliper brackets, and doing the fuel lines as well.

A couple pointers for anyone going to tackle this. It is a big job. I'd consider myself an advanced ameuter mechanic (I've done transmissions and rebuilt engines, clutch jobs, etc). I'd consider this a medium-advanced level task. You definitely need to be comfortable turning wrenches on rusty nuts and bolts without stripping them, and dealing with the consequences if you do. It's also just a big job, lots of things to keep track of. That said, much of it is just tedious.

Basic tools necessary beyond typical sockets/wrenches/pliers are a 10mm brake line wrench, 4 tall jack stands, a can of penetrating lubricant, and a clear hose to bleed the brakes.

Highly recommended would be an impact wrench, a propane torch, a driver of some sort for all the millions of 10mm bolts (I use an air ratchet, but an impact driver works as well), and an interior trim tool to remove the plastic clips without breaking them.

One thing I didn't know before starting this job is that it is NOT necessary to remove the fuel tank in order to do the brake lines. Although the old LR brake line goes behind the tank, the new stainless ones take a different routing to that wheel and it's not needed to drop the tank. Now, to replace the fuel lines (which you probably need to do) is certainly much easier with the tank out of the way but having looked at it, I'm pretty certain I could carefully fish the new fuel lines up and over the tank with the tank in place. It would be fiddly though, there are clips involved, you still need to get access to the top of the tank, and once you've done that much it's not much more work to drop the tank which certainly creates better access and lets you clean the years of accumulated crud out of there.

The stainless lines are thoughtfully divided up into sections in some places which makes threading them much easier. Really a top-notch job.

The Honda fuel lines are too big to reasonably ship. I picked them up directly from Majestic Honda.

It is NOT necessary to touch the exhaust at all to drop the tank. Lower the left side first and it slides right out assuming you've emptied the tank so it's not too heavy.

My brake rotors where original. One was rusted on so badly that it had to be removed in pieces. New ones are cheap as are reman calipers.

The right front flexible brake hose is NLA from Honda. The Dorman replacement doesn't quite fit correctly, the mounting holes don't line up, so had to mount with just one screw instead of two.

Where the rear flexible lines bolt to the steel subframe is almost certainly very rusty. Too much torque can bend the attachment brackets, I had to use penetrant, heat, and a pair of large pliers counteracting the torque of the ratchet to prevent tearing the brackets right off.

One of my rear bleeder screws snapped off despite penetrant + heat. I just tossed the cylinder and ordered a new one. Cheap.

I broke every fuel line clip. Rather than order Honda, I ordered a bunch of cable-tie clips from Amazon. Similarly broke most of the plastic clips which hold the underbody panels on. Ordered a set of 100 (!!) from Amazon for about $9.

Most of the places where the old brakes lines attach will be corroded into place and even with the proper wrench there is a risk of rounding. Remember that you're throwing it all away, and just use a set of snips to cut the brake line flush with the fitting, then you can get a proper socket on it.

After 18 years of New England salt, there where many places where my old brake and fuel lines could be twisted apart by hand. I put it off way too long. After it was all together, I sprayed all the remaining rusty bits down with LPS 3 to try forestall the inevitable.
 

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@ackttacker, thank you for the very nice write-up and for setting expectations clearly.
 

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My first Insight was a 2001 and I bought it in 2015. I lived in Ontario at the time, which is where the Insight had spent its entire life. A previous owner (IC user rhall) had replaced the fuel line shortly before I bought it, but he advised me to do the brake lines because they were rusting in multiple places and it was only a matter of time, and in Ontario you need a safety inspection anyway when you get a new (to you) car.

My cousin and I replaced all the lines, he did most of the hard work to be honest, but we used new coated line and cut, bent, and flared everything ourselves. It was pretty hard, but it is doable. If you make your own lines like we did you can save a lot of money but it is extra work. We took the old lines out and tried our best to bend the new ones to approximate the shape of the old ones. It doesn't look as pretty as OEM but we got the job done and they still work great 50k miles later. I don't own the car anymore but I actually worked on it yesterday, it's still in good shape.

At the time the fasteners on this car were about 14 years old, surprisingly nothing broke except a couple push pin clips. But these days when you work on a 2000 Insight like I think the few extra years has finally started putting the oldest fasteners to the test and nowadays most or the plastic fasteners are getting pretty brittle.
 

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One thing I meant to add, which I thought of after doing this whole job, is that the fuel lines are a major PITA. Expensive, tough to source, unwieldy to replace, and the main reason to drop the tank.

However unlike the brake lines the fuel lines are low pressure, mostly plastic coated, and actually only really rust in two places... right at the end in the engine compartment, and where they make the transition from horizontal steel to vertical plastic (next to the fuel tank). So, if I had to do this over again, I would consider simply cutting out the rusty bits and splicing in some replacement fuel hose. Could be done relatively easy in place.
 

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One thing I meant to add, which I thought of after doing this whole job, is that the fuel lines are a major PITA. Expensive, tough to source, unwieldy to replace, and the main reason to drop the tank.

However unlike the brake lines the fuel lines are low pressure, mostly plastic coated, and actually only really rust in two places... right at the end in the engine compartment, and where they make the transition from horizontal steel to vertical plastic (next to the fuel tank). So, if I had to do this over again, I would consider simply cutting out the rusty bits and splicing in some replacement fuel hose. Could be done relatively easy in place.
Yep, the fuel lines rusted out in both places on one of my Insights! I plan to splice them. Why didn't Honda just make them all plastic?
 

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And I'm reading this topic now because my fuel feed line split at the rear, right at the union to the plastic tubing, due to rust.

Going to call Honda later today and see if the fuel feed line is still available considering it looks like an easy replacement to just swap in a new OEM line and be good for another 20 years.

If not available, will make up a new line with aftermarket fittings.

Anyone happen to know the size of the quick connect fitting at the fuel pump? Forgot to measure last night as I was scrambling to quickly get my RX-7 out of winter storage so I could have a car today!
 

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I need to do the long run of the brake lines. I saw that Ebay has stainless in one piece is that your source that you used for your job , I would like to not drop the fuel tank and get into more repairs
 

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I need to do the long run of the brake lines. I saw that Ebay has stainless in one piece is that your source that you used for your job , I would like to not drop the fuel tank and get into more repairs
I ordered mine from sstubes. Fine Lines is the brand. I suspect the ebay ones are the same thing.
 

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brake lines

yes ordered a complete stainless set and found a discount for 25% off total $159. Thanks for the redirect ebay would have been 30 dollars less but they had just separate sections intermediate, front ,rear and would have been alot more if I went that way instead of the SSTUBES website
 

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Oh yeah, one other thing, the stainless lines are pretty good quality but there was one connection that leaked on me no matter how much I tightened it. Maybe I damaged the sealing surface during the install. The solution was a copper washer which is more malleable. Parker 2GF-3 available on Amazon or elsewhere. Maybe order up a pack of those.
 

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So, I bought the SS brake and fuel line kit. Also purchased every fastener and clip there was for the brake lines with the exception of the large clips that hold all the lines together under the car. I didn't realize they were there until I crawled under the car this weekend. So, couple questions:

Brake System:
Can those large clips be easily reused? or should I buy new? Looks like they hold all the lines as they weasel underneath the car.

Fuel system:
Besides the tank straps and bolts, are there any other bolts required to drop the tank?
Any other parts (clips/fasteners) that need touched to do the fuel lines, that one would recommend getting?
Do the tank end of the fuel lines just go to hose? Splice or what? Looking through the parts catalog and the service manual it's not obvious. I've not opened the kit I got, possible they come with the right fitting on them for the snap attachment.
Is it really necessary to drop the exhaust to drop the tank? My convertor looks nearly gone at the flanges and I dread moving it too much let alone taking it apart. At least not yet.

I'm going to be diving into the car this coming weekend. This past weekend I spent some time soaking the lines/fasteners and joints that need taken apart. I just want to havening everything available if possible so I can get as far as I can without hitting a wall on something.
 

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Not impressed on any level with SS Tubes kits. Would be nice if they provided some documentation and additional labeling but I'll let it slide. However, the bigger annoyance is the lack of quality in the prebent lines. For instance, the lines that run up the rear axle tube from the wheel cylinder to the rubber line. They were nearing an 1" too long. So when the line was attached to the mount bracket/rubber line, the line that should go into the wheel cylinder at a 90, was about an inch past it. Had to bend the line around between the two points to take up the slack. The lines that go cross car from the MC to the block on the pass strut tower are too long. They push and rub on the strut tower. The bends that go into that same block and to the ABS unit, again need more bending because they don't fit. I truly question if I would buy another set. I'm only 1/2 done. Still have to run the lines that run under the body and drop the fuel tank to tackle them. Totally dreading it.
 

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For those that did the fuel lines also with the SS set, explain the fitting that are included and what's is reused on the fuel lines. I think I have an idea, but not 100% sure. I take it we reuse the plastic lines that attach to the fuel pump and use the included fittings to attach to the other ends of the plastic lines to attach them to the lines that run forward under the body? What's the rubber hose for? Also, what's the trick to get the filler neck hose back on? Drop the EVAP module out of the way before putting the tank up? My clamp was rusty enough, I was able to slide the hose off the tank when I pulled it down. I can see it will be a PITA to reinstall it though.
 

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Morpheus, based on this story and others I guess I don't buy stainless lines, and just let my mechanic build his own as he suggested, leaving the rusted tank in place, since he's already spliced the fuel line and brakes are rusted in rear not near firewall. Dropping the tank to install new brake lines will cost me $800 plus the lines. I might be able to remove lines from a parts car I have, but he'd still have to drop the fuel tank it seems and install..which could lead to lots of time with all the rust. Building a set is estimated around $600... Beginning to think that's best.
 

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One thing I meant to add, which I thought of after doing this whole job, is that the fuel lines are a major PITA. Expensive, tough to source, unwieldy to replace, and the main reason to drop the tank.

However unlike the brake lines the fuel lines are low pressure, mostly plastic coated, and actually only really rust in two places... right at the end in the engine compartment, and where they make the transition from horizontal steel to vertical plastic (next to the fuel tank). So, if I had to do this over again, I would consider simply cutting out the rusty bits and splicing in some replacement fuel hose. Could be done relatively easy in place.
The right rear brake line burst on me yesterday and I am now in the process of replacing all the brake lines and hoses.

I noticed that all three fuel lines are ready to burst as well in those sections that you mentioned. Rather than replacing all the fuel lines I think I'm going to try your suggestion and simply cut out the rusted sections and slide over new fuel hose. I'm guessing standard 1/4" fuel hose and some clamps would do the trick.

I will report back on how it works out. Anyone have any other suggestions before I get started?
 
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