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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2001 Honda Insight 5 spd ("Hurricane") that I bought from Ebay about a year and a half ago. The car has been just great, averaging 55 mpg in mountain terrain and 72 mpg on the flat. It has saved me a ton of money, especially with gas over $3 here in NoCA.

Two days ago Hurricane had a recal as I was driving uphill and the IMA lit.
She posted a 1447 (I read it at AutoZone). When I got home, I found that something had gotten behind the driver's seat and blocked airflow to the battery vent inlet.

There were also some PO300 codes that indicated cylinder misfires and
one that indicated that the catalytic converter exceeded threshold.

I thought I'd erased the troublecodes with AZ'sjavascript:emoticon
Confused OBD II, but the IMA lit again as soon as I started the engine.

javascript:emoticon(':?')
Confused

Did the loaner OBD2 not erase the DTC ? Did the blocked vent cause an over-temperature condition, hopefully temporary? Or is there a real battery failure? I'm not experiencing any noticeable power failure.

As far as I know, my car has not had the warranty upgrade. If Honda is claiming that American Insight owners won't have to pay for a battery replacement even at 200,000 miles, then will they do my car?

Or should I think about going the used battery route? I am an experienced EV repair technician and have the 2000-2001 Insight shop manual. Can someone suggest a source? I checked LKQ and they don't appear to have any IMA batteries.

I'd rather not have the electronics upgrade, since I like my car the way it is.

Clare
Hurricane's mom
Hurricane - Electron blue 2001 5-spd
Hurricane Katrina survivor!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Notification letter

BTW, I did call Honda when I got the letter and they said my car wasn't eligible for the warranty upgrade, so I didn't do anything, since it wasn't failing.

Now I see that cars with higher mileage than me (I'm still under 160k and someone with 190K) got the warranty. Does anyone know any Insight-friendly Honda dealers in the Modesto-Turlock (California) area?

Hurricane
 

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" thought I'd erased the troublecodes with AZ'sjavascript:emoticon
Confused OBD II, but the IMA lit again as soon as I started the engine."

A normal OBDII (or at least the ScanGuage II) doesn't seem to clear IMA related codes. Or rather, it clears the codes but doesn't reset the IMA, so the codes pop right up again. You can reset it by pulling one of the fuses in the inside fusebox - I think it's the 4th one in the bottom row. (This will also put your SOC meter at 0.)
 

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BTW, I did call Honda when I got the letter and they said my car wasn't eligible for the warranty upgrade, so I didn't do anything, since it wasn't failing.
Since you bought the car from Ebay and it survived hurricane Katrina, is it a salvage title?...If not, you probably have a better chance of warranty repair. What was the reason Honda gave you for not being eligible and what was the mileage on the odometer when you called?

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hurricane is NOT a salvage title

Hi JoeCVT and thanks for the response.

The car is not a salvage title. Though she was in southeast Texas during both storms, her seller moved her out of the worst and she didn't get damaged.
She has a regular California title now. There was 152K on the clock when I got the Honda letter.

The reason given by Honda on the phone was that the car was over 150k period. I believe I still have my notification letter (I was lucky I didn't throw it away in disgust). Given the experiences of over-150,000 mile Insight owners, I think Honda might reconsider what they told me.

OK, so the OBD II doesn't erase the IMA codes. I'll use the fuse-pulling procedure and reset the SOC meter.
I did get a P1163, which indicated that my theory about the blocked battery air intake seems to be right.

I drive a lot in the mountains, so that the battery tends to get somewhat discharged each time. That may be why it hasn't failed before. I also use the cruise control a lot, since it seems to give the car good mpg numbers without overtaxing the battery.

Do you or anyone else know an Insight-friendly Honda dealer in the Modesto-Turlock area? I'd also be willing to take the car to Sacramento or Stockton.

I really love Hurricane, so this is a little bit painful.

Thanks again
 

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Before doing the reset procedure, I would call the Amererican Honda Customer Care line at 800-999-1009 and ask them. (I got the number from here - you should read the whole post even though it is long) Thell them what happend at 152K when you got the letter and your current mileage. You mentioned something behind the driver's seat. That does not impact cooling the battery since the vent is on the passenger side so bringing that up to them may only confuse the issue (by them thinking that it is somehow your fault). Honda needs to see the code that you have before any warranty repair can be performed so I would not reset the codes by any procedure until you get a response from Honda Care. If you get a positive response, get the representative's contact info if you need it again. If not, call your local Honda dealer and see what they can do (they may need to see the car first).

Also, there may be a limit to how long you can drive the car in this condition based on if the IMA is still charging the 12V battery up front. So try to contact you local Honda dealer instead of making long trips to other dealerships and drive the car as little as possible while checking the 12V battery. Once it becomes discharged enough (you will be stranded on the road) or disconnected, you will loose the stored IMA codes that you will need for Honda to do anything. I'm in New Hampshire so I don't know the Insight friendly dealers in your area.

If they do change the battery out of warranty, they probably will change the other controllers if your car requires it. Some people have noticed differences in the controller change and some have not. But it is still better to have a new / refurbished battery pack than finding a used one that may fail shortly afterwards.

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Found my letter and will do as you suggest

I won't re-set the codes and will take it to Honda. I will let you know the results.

BTW, I've worked on and driven EVs that charged the 12V from a DC/DC converter and if the traction pack goes flat, so does the 12V, so you are right.

Thanks again from

Hurricane
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Just spoke to American Honda - yes!

Hurricane is eligible for the product update. I spoke to a very nice gentleman named Gilbert. They will read the codes and install the IMA repair kit. The waranty on the repair is 1 year or 12,000 miles, correct?

The warranty itself does not apply, but since there is a warranty on the repair, that's OK

Thanks for your advice -- it really helped! Hurricane and I are a much happier campers. ':D'

One question -- I have cruise control on my car. I think I get better mileage when I use it -- the assist doesn't come on as often. What do you think?
 

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That's good news....Cruise control is ok if it helps keep you out of assist while cruising for fuel economy. The only problem is that the cruise control can not see the hill ahead of you and you would probably get more MPG by manually slightly accelerating before the hill while the car gradually decreases speed uphill (but staying within safe speed limits).

Usually the best MPG is obtained by trying to use the least amount of assist while cruising. A possible exception to the rule could be found in the MIMA thread. It has many pages of reading but may be of interest with your EV background.

I have the cruise control installed as well but only use it on long trips if my foot gets tired.

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Still a little confused

I now have a Monday appointment at Mistlin Honda in Modesto. When I asked whether the IMA repair kit included a battery, they said no, just the two electronic modules. American Honda Customer Care indicated that they would replace the battery. Should I get American Honda to call Mistlin Honda, or should I go to another dealership?

':?'

Clare
 

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That doesn't make sense to honor the warranty but not replace the actual defective part indicated by the IMA code. They are probably looking an earlier recall to have the controllers replaced on certain model years but the battery warranty was recently extended to 150,000 miles. Yes, if you can have Honda Care speak with the dealer, they could remind them of the recent warranty extension. They probably will replace the battery and the two controllers.

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner
 

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Discussion Starter #12
American Honda Care

I'll see if I can get Honda Care to speak with Mistlin Honda before I take the car in.

On use of the cruise control, I actually do accelerate before hills, using the CC instead of the pedal. I'm getting 55.2 mpg in pretty hilly terrain.

Thanks yet again,
CB
 

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Quote your dealer the bulletin. Doubt you'll need to do the same with Honda customer relations ;)

See:

Sticky: US IMA warranty 10 year extension UPDATED to all 50 states!
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=4796

For your location and without a reproducable P1447 only the modules would be replaced.

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Honda Reneging on Hurricane

I am sitting in Mistlin Honda, having been informed that the dealership wants me to pay for half of a $6,000 repair. (Mistlin Honda's Service Department line is 209-549-5014. If, after reading this, you want to call them, feel free.)

I had earlier spoken by telephone to a service rep at Mistlin named Bob. I told him the same facts I had posted earlier and he said that they would read the IMA codes and then go from there. He indicated that they would replace the modules that had caused the problem.

When I got there, I didn't see Bob, but instead spoke to a fellow named Raymond. Nearly the first thing out of his mouth was that the car was over 150,000 and thus ineligible. I showed him the letter, told him the history and gave him the contact info for Gilbert.
He spoke to American Honda, but, evidently not to Gilbert. When he came back to me, he said that American Honda and his service manager had decided to offer me a half-price deal.

I told him that I was not satisfied and that other Insight owners with cars around 180,000 miles had the work done under the product update.

I also gave him the number of the latest service update.

Then I contacted American Honda again

A phone call to 800-999-1009 got me the following statement: basically that the person I had spoken to (Gilbert), who gave me the information I relayed in the earlier post was mistaken. I was not allowed to speak to this individual. Nor could I speak to the supervisor of the woman I did speak to.

One of the questions she asked was did I own any other Hondas. When I said no, her attitude seemed to harden.

I asked for a case number and was given one.

I am extremely disappointed in Honda at this point. I'm not sure how long
the battery will last now, in fact I don't know if the car will make it home.

Oh, they said they didn't pay attention to Insight Central because it is "an unofficial site." Sheesh. This doesn't sound like the treatment they are giving other Insight owners. What is it? They don't like my looks?

CB
cell 209-480-2358

':evil:'
 

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I just sent you a PM - check your messages.

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner.
 

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Sorry about your troubles rathacat, but remember that the 150,000 limit is a goodwill "warranty" extension.

There has to be a limit somewhere. Even at 150K if you do the math (and had saved some of the cash you didn't spend at the pump) your IMA batteries have more than paid for themselves. A 50% offer from Honda is nothing to thumb your nose at (and can be revoked at Honda's sole discretion so if you choose to push I'd tread lightly ;) )

Ask yourself how many other manufacturers would be willing to "give" a customer $3,000.00 on a car with over 150,000 miles on it :!: :shock:

And yes there was _one_ other post by an infrequently posting member that they "got" it 100% covered well in excess of 150K. But you'd be wise to remember not to believe _everything_ you read in cyberspace.

And its true Insight Central has no affiliation with Honda motor company except for their permissions to post their copyrighted Insight information that you see on some of the non forum pages. We don't have carte blanche copyright permission so the standard restrictions in the forums apply.

HTH! :)
 
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