Honda Insight Forum banner

1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The Honda issued 2000-2005 shop manual, page 6-64, says, when installing head, to apply liquid gasket (LG) to shaded are shown on illustration, place the gasket, then apply LG to area shown as broken line on 2nd illustration. This is not possible as the 2nd area is now covered by the head gasket. The first area is at a vertical mating surface between the block and the housing for the timing chain, etc. A logical place for LG. In the area shown in the second illustration which extends around this hosing, here is no difference between it and the rest of the block or head surfaces. I see no reason for LG here.

I think the original design called for a head gasket that did not extend around this area and therefore used LG to seal. The production realty is a gasket that extends over this area so no LG is needed except at the point of the vertical mating surface. I expect that the manual was supposed be corrected but some damned fool technical writer (my middle name) added the new instruction, but did not delete the old. Should have instruction to use LG at mating surface. Should not have impossible instruction to then use LG in area covered by head gasket.

However, the specs call for different torque to the last two bolts at the edge of this area. Is that a holdover from the hypothetical original shorter gasket/LG plan and they did not correct the manual to new torque? Or is lower torque a reason for LG and head gasket on same area? My guesses on these last two are no and no. But I really don't want to bet a head job on any of these WAGs.

Any expert knowledge on these?

BTW, is this the best Insight Central forum for this question?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,912 Posts
I don't have a shop manual, but similar instructions exist in the pdf manual, section "cylinder_head" around page 153. Reading the instructions, the first use of liquid gasket says apply "to the cylinder head gasket mating surface of the engine block and oil pump," while the second use of liquid gasket says apply "to the cylinder head mating surface of the engine block and oil pump." I would take these to mean that the first usage goes between the gasket and the block, and the second usage goes between the gasket and the head, on top of the gasket... As I recall, I've seen liquid gasket around that area squeezed out between the head and the block...

edit: I went down to the garage to take a quick peak, and it's hard to tell what's there. I can see a little tan I think 'Hondabond' liquid gasket between the block and the gasket around the corners at timing chain-side, nothing between the top of the gasket and the head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I don't have a shop manual, but similar instructions exist in the pdf manual, section "cylinder_head" around page 153. Reading the instructions, the first use of liquid gasket says apply "to the cylinder head gasket mating surface of the engine block and oil pump," while the second use of liquid gasket says apply "to the cylinder head mating surface of the engine block and oil pump." I would take these to mean that the first usage goes between the gasket and the block, and the second usage goes between the gasket and the head, on top of the gasket... As I recall, I've seen liquid gasket around that area squeezed out between the head and the block...

edit: I went down to the garage to take a quick peak, and it's hard to tell what's there. I can see a little tan I think 'Hondabond' liquid gasket between the block and the gasket around the corners at timing chain-side, nothing between the top of the gasket and the head.
I have reexamined that wording. The section that refers to the small area at the vertical mating surface between the block ad the timing chain housing (that the call the oil pump) refers to the "cylinder head gasket mating surface of the engine block and oil pump." To me that refers to the surfaces of the gasket and the block/pump where they come together. The broken line section says cylinder head mating surface of the engine block and oil pump. No mention of gasket. That seems to refer to a direct contact between the head and the block/pump which, I was thinking, does not exist. But you made me doubt that assumption. I examined the gasket and found its width once it passes the vertical mating point immediately becomes much thinner. So, another cue from you, go out and look at the thing. Laid the gasket on the block. There is space between the inside edge of the gasket and the inside edge of the “mating surface” for the bead of LG. Just like it was designed that way. Imagine that. I've been told I over analyze. Ya think? If I'd just done the thing instead of trying to plan it out in advance from minutely reading the manual I'd probably be driving now.

So, is the Honda LG referred to the equivalent of Permatex Ultra Copper Maximum Temperature, which probably wouldn't be necessary across the chain housing from the actual cylinders, or their Ultra Black for high resistance to oil? If my memory is correct the Honda grey is the oil/chemical resistant stuff?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Here’s a picture of the 2000-2006 Service Manual.

82531
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,912 Posts
So, is the Honda LG referred to the equivalent of Permatex Ultra Copper Maximum Temperature, which probably wouldn't be necessary across the chain housing from the actual cylinders, or their Ultra Black for high resistance to oil? If my memory is correct the Honda grey is the oil/chemical resistant stuff?
I don't know, but I looked up the part number on amazon, which returned that 'hondabond' stuff I mentioned, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/Honda-08717-0004-Hondabond-08717-1194-Made/dp/B00AJV2J0E/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=honda+08717-0004&qid=1568251750&s=gateway&sr=8-4

The manual actually shows two choices, the 08717 and the 08718. The link above is the 17, if you look up 18 it's a 'high temp silicone' version (and it's quite a bit more expensive)...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I don't know, but I looked up the part number on amazon, which returned that 'hondabond' stuff I mentioned, here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/Honda-08717-0004-Hondabond-08717-1194-Made/dp/B00AJV2J0E/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=honda+08717-0004&qid=1568251750&s=gateway&sr=8-4

The manual actually shows two choices, the 08717 and the 08718. The link above is the 17, if you look up 18 it's a 'high temp silicone' version (and it's quite a bit more expensive)...
I found an old tube of the Permatex Ultra Copper with enough at the bottom still good to do the job so I snipped off a corner and used it. Ultra high temp, oil resistant and, in this case, really cheap instead of its usual robbery.
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
About this Discussion
5 Replies
3 Participants
smanion
Honda Insight Forum
We’re the ultimate Honda Insight forum to talk about Honda’s hybrid car and its fuel economy and specs!
Full Forum Listing
Top