Honda Insight Forum banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I recently bought an EV converted Insight that still needs some finishing touches. Finally took delivery of it today, unfortunately on the way over, the rear hatch got busted out.
Automotive parking light Car Vehicle Vehicle registration plate Plant

But, it's in it's new home, so that's good.

This will be the thread for the project. I was hoping to have a better overview of the car today, but I don't want to go digging into it right now with the hatch glass everywhere.
If anyone has a line on a replacement hatch in New England, I'm definitely open to hearing about it. I have a potential option already, but I don't want to assume that's going to happen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,983 Posts
If anyone has a line on a replacement hatch in New England, I'm definitely open to hearing about it. I have a potential option already, but I don't want to assume that's going to happen.
I have ~95% of a spare hatch .. free if you want it.
It is missing the rear wiper , the center brake light bar , and the plastic spoiler's tabs are broken .. but otherwise glass , frame, etc is fine.

Warwick RI
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have ~95% of a spare hatch
PM sent. Thanks for being so quick to help out with this project!

The guy whose house I'm storing at it showed up and convinced me to clean most of the glass out and take him for a test drive. Everything works, but it's an absolute dog right now. I'm going to have to do a lot of reading on how to program the motor controller to see if I can make it a bit better to drive in traffic. There is also NO charging solution or balancing solution right now, so this is probably the last time it'll be driven for a while. I'm really excited to dig in, finish out the roughing in, and then button everything up. This should be a great project and definitely not a huge money sink that will be 100% not worth it in the end.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,983 Posts
I think the original post said it came from a gen1 Volt .. Is it the whole gen1 volt battery (3p96s) ?

Before you invest (Time or $) in BMS / charging / mounting and such for that battery pack .. It might be a good idea to test the 96 capacities , to see how much of the original ~16kwh is still available .. and if all 96 are still reasonably well matched to each other. If you wish to drop them off to me for about a week or so, I can do that battery testing for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: minor4326

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think the original post said it came from a gen1 Volt .. Is it the whole gen1 volt battery (3p96s) ?
It is the whole pack split in two and put in parallel. Since I'm planning to head out that way, I might as well load them up and bring them with me. I need to get them out of there to clean out the glass and generally figure out what's going on in there in the first place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
What’s the age of the pack? Volt batteries have a reputation for going wonky around the ten-year mark with failures in single cells. So you are aware…
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,129 Posts
PM sent. Thanks for being so quick to help out with this project!

The guy whose house I'm storing at it showed up and convinced me to clean most of the glass out and take him for a test drive. Everything works, but it's an absolute dog right now. I'm going to have to do a lot of reading on how to program the motor controller to see if I can make it a bit better to drive in traffic. There is also NO charging solution or balancing solution right now, so this is probably the last time it'll be driven for a while. I'm really excited to dig in, finish out the roughing in, and then button everything up. This should be a great project and definitely not a huge money sink that will be 100% not worth it in the end.
More than likely it will be a money sink.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,983 Posts
It is the whole pack split in two and put in parallel. Since I'm planning to head out that way, I might as well load them up and bring them with me. I need to get them out of there to clean out the glass and generally figure out what's going on in there in the first place.
OEM 3p96s .. From what I've heard from GMVolt Owners
As high as 390v fully charged .. ~4.06v per cell
As low as 330v minimum car shuts down .. ~3.43v per cell

If cells as all perfectly matched .. and perfectly balanced the pack could be pushed a bit higher and a bit lower .. but there are diminishing returns and shorted battery life concerns about doing such.

split in two and running in parallel as 3p48s2p ..
If you run with roughly the same voltage window as GM did than
195v max and 165v min

AFAIK it has a Ac24LS motor and a DMOC445 controller operating in a delta configure .. See attached spec sheet for that combination. +/- shoftware tweaking and such that allows for about ~35kw ~87Nm peak ~15kw ~36Nm continuous.

If you are up to re-configuring motor and controller to wye (hgiher voltage mode) , the same motor / controller components +/- software tweaking , would allow for about ~47kw ~92Nm peak and ~20kw ~42Nm continuous.

Seems to me to be capable of similar power and such to a OEM Gen1 .. a more peak power at low RPMs and less continuous power at higher RPMs .. on attached OEM Gen1 Insight kw power/ RPM curve , I put delta ~35kw peak in dark green , detla ~15kw continuous in light green .. wye ~47kw peak in dark blue , wye ~20kw continuous in light blue .. The Insight power curve is in rich peak power operation mode , OEM Gen1 Insight curve is less power in stoichiometric , and less power than that in Lean Burn .. I haven't seen a rolling road dyno of the OEM Gen1 in the various air to fuel ratios .. but I suspect OEM Lean Burn to have a peak power @ 3,000 RPMs of somewhere around ~15kw.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
More than likely it will be a money sink.
Ah yes, I see sarcasm still doesn't come through well in text. This is in idiotic monetary investment, but I feel like it will be valuable experience that results in having a thing I want.

IamIan, we're on about the same page for what motor is in it and what I can expect out of it, however it's worth noting that it's built without a clutch, so unless I get good at driving a MT, or do some serious software wizardry, I'm stuck in the gear I start in. I'm totally up to reconfigure everything to be in wye mode, I do industrial maintenance professionally so it's not a huge deal to me.

The battery and how to manage it is the big mystery to me, and I'm rapidly figuring all of that out with the help you're providing.

At this point, the big problem is getting the not insubstantial amount of funding I need to finish this project out in a reasonable timeframe. Considering pretending I can make a youtube channel about it and become popular out of nowhere and get thousands of dollars a month on patreon. :p
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,983 Posts
IamIan, we're on about the same page for what motor is in it and what I can expect out of it, however it's worth noting that it's built without a clutch, so unless I get good at driving a MT, or do some serious software wizardry, I'm stuck in the gear I start in.
True .. but , I figure you have two saving graces

#1> The EV drive's torque and power output is not as adversely effected by RPM as the OEM ICE was .. for example WYE has peak torque available by 50 RPMs .. not the 5,500 RPMs the ICE needed for peak torque .. Even the delta has peak torque available by as little as 350 RPMs .. soo the electric drive has less need to shift than the ICE did.

#2> RPM vs speed
The EV drive is rated for up to 12,000 RPMs .. Soo , no trouble with the ~6,000 RPM the MT red line designed for .. even just 2nd gear gets you up to about ~70MPH by the time it reaches ~6,000 RPMs.

I'm totally up to reconfigure everything to be in wye mode, I do industrial maintenance professionally so it's not a huge deal to me.
It's your car .. but I think the little extra WYE will give you might be worth the effort to switch over to it.

IThe battery and how to manage it is the big mystery to me, and I'm rapidly figuring all of that out with the help you're providing.
What is needed by the battery is pretty straight forward. There are lots of ways to do it.

#1> Operating Voltage Range
The battery cells / modules need to be put in series to be in the voltage range for the mode (Delta/WYE) you configure the motor and controller to operate in .. those min and max numbers are on the previous pdf.

#2> Power
This EV drive system pushes these batteries less hard than the Volt system did .. soo no problem there.

#3> Program motor controller
So that is doesn't over discharge the battery
So that is doesn't over charge the battery, during regen.

#4> Charge Control
Program whatever charger you choose to not over charge the battery.

#5> BMS
Which ever system you use.
At a minimum a system that automatically monitors , gives error indicator / disables use if it detects a serious fault/issue.

Ideally it would also have the ability to do some small amount of correction on it's own automatically .. fix small/slow balance issues , take some protective action when battery is hot or cold , etc.

At this point, the big problem is getting the not insubstantial amount of funding I need to finish this project out in a reasonable timeframe. Considering pretending I can make a youtube channel about it and become popular out of nowhere and get thousands of dollars a month on patreon. :p
YouTube is free.. soo it doesn't hurt much to throw up a few basic videos .. if it pans out great .. if not .. no much lost.

Additionally even if nothing ever comes of the video as far a financial profit .. keeping records of things like videos can also be useful documentation .. or future maintenance , and such .. to refresh one's own memory years later after the project is complete .. or just as a help to show others out there who might also think about doing a similar project.

I would recommend waiting a little bit on worrying about the balance of the rest of the funding just yet .. additional funding will be effected by choices you make .. choices you make will depend on information .. One step at a time .. clean up / unpack what you already have .. then once you have better quantified what you already have .. maybe do some low hanging fruit .. then you can do some research weigh the pros and cons of different options before make some choices for any other additional major purchases.

like get the battery cells tested 1st .. before getting a charger or BMS for them.

or .. if you know you want to do the WYE instead of Delta .. you can work on doing that change over in the motor wiring and the controler software without any additional major purchases.
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: ttsgeb

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,983 Posts
If you wish to drop them off to me for about a week or so, I can do that battery testing for you.
Full disclosure ... just so you are aware ahead of time .. about ~1 week is ideal best case for me to test the 96 units .. worst case is it could take me as long as about ~4 weeks to get through all 96.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That all sounds reasonable to me. There's no reality where I have everything sorted to move ahead with batteries and don't have 200 other projects on this car to worry about at the same time in the next two months. I really appreciate all of your help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hood Automotive lighting Bumper Trunk Personal luxury car

Finished emptying out the back of the EV and got the batteries loaded into my car for a roadtrip next week. No wonder the last guy thought the shocks were gone, these suckers are heavy. I really shouldn't ride around with them in the car for the next week, but I don't have many other options.
Went ahead and removed the remains of the rear glass and pulled the hatch off before ratchet strapping it back on. Doesn't seem to fit through the hole it covers, so that's a bummer, but I have some other ideas on how to make things work to transport it in the car.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,983 Posts
Went ahead and removed the remains of the rear glass and pulled the hatch off before ratchet strapping it back on. Doesn't seem to fit through the hole it covers, so that's a bummer, but I have some other ideas on how to make things work to transport it in the car.
The Insight's rear hatch does fit inside the Insight .. the front seats have to move forward a little.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
You know what's not fun? Mouse droppings.


I smell terrible and I look forward to the shower I'm about to take, but the interior is mostly out of the car. All that remains is the hard plastic and the door panels. That's a project for another day, though.
Hood Vehicle Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Car



I have glass covering the hole now thanks to IamIan, so that's rather great.

Found kinks and electrical tape around the HV wires, so those definitely have to be replaced.

Pulled the seat covers and I'm getting ready to throw them in the wash. What's the prevailing wisdom on how to dry them afterward?
 

·
Registered
2000 Honda Insight
Joined
·
472 Posts
You know what's not fun? Mouse droppings.
Mice really make a nasty mess out of Insights! They find their way into everything. Check the headliner by knocking on it and listening for the rattle of droppings. Mouse piss in the dome light is a gross clue too. They can nest in and around the HVAC ducts. Also the cowl area below the wipers. And the cavities around the rear wheel wells are one of their favorite spots. All the way from the seat belt area to the back of the car. There are a few foam blocks in there that make great nesting material and/or toilets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
816 Posts
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top