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According to the local dealer who recently returned from some Honda-France sales meeting, it's confirmed that they'll have 2 new hybrids for 2009 here in France! One is the coupe, the other some sort of Jazz-sized family car. Prices are of course unknown for now but according to him, they're going to have to be super competitive because Honda has apparently decided they want to be biggest seller of hybrids in Europe (maybe outside of Europe also but at the meeting they were only talking about Europe). His reasoning was that if Honda wants to sell the numbers they're talking about, the only way they'll be able to achieve that is via low pricing because Europe in general, and especially France, is totally dominated by diesel engines. And as good as Honda's diesel is (I've driven the diesel Civic and it's fantastic), they've for whatever reason decided to throw their efforts into gas hybrids rather than diesels. So if they're going to attract diesel buyers, they're going to have to have excellent prices and way low fuel consumption figures.
All good news for me because if the coupe is what has been shown at shows, or at least close to it, Honda has one sale coming up, assuming of course the fuel consumption figures are closer to my Insights numbers rather than the current Prius.
 

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Anything going on over there re. that VW two seater we've been hearing about?

Fred / Proud Owner of "The Silver Bullet"
 

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VWs one-litre-car is where it belongs.... in a museum.
I said before it will not see the light of day and it hasn't arrived yet either.

Back to topic !!

Can't wait to see these new Hybrids arriving on European roads. I am so sick of my Toyota Prius.
I want a decent car again !!
:lol:
 

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It really is taking a bit for these things to come out. My car is 8 years old, had it since June 2001... still the only real hybrid option is a Prius (with the Insight being out of production). Luckily, Honda makes a good product, so my car has at least lasted me this long. (worrying about jinxing the car...) :shock:
 

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No. 166 said:
VWs one-litre-car is where it belongs.... in a museum. I said before it will not see the light of day and it hasn't arrived yet either.
Ahem.

Before you badmouth other cars, you might want to do some more internet googling. VW has already announced they are producing the 1 Liter car (240 MPG car) for release in mid-2009. However like the Lupo 3L, it will not be available in France, only Germany.
 

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no more impractical than saving for the simultaneous purchase of 4 different cars. :D ...i kid, i kid.

no but really, I also have no plans on replacing the insight until something comes along that is much more efficient and will carry more than one passenger. A plug in or something totally gas free seems like the only option for me. I absolutely love the 1L car, and if I could afford more than one car, I'd love that for myself, but I think I will probably go for a 4 seater next time, It's just nice to be able to even once every week or two, be able to carry a few people. Maybe when my finances are truly in order, I will have a one seater, a two seater, a three seater, and a four seater. It reminds me of fellow fly fishermen who carry a dozen fly rods in their car depending on the day's fishing. :D

If we get off gas, then the benefits of a two seater will be nil, and I will be in line for a more useful car, i.e a four seater. I love the concept of the two seater, for a sports car, or extreme 1L type car, but for a car getting just around twice the mileage of a civic, why not make it a four seater like was mentioned. Maybe not quite porsche style. I wouldn't call the back seat of a 911 really all that capable of carrying passengers, and I don't know if the Insight is quite big enough to house another two either, but I certainly wouldn't want it to turn into a fit in order to carry four either. It'd be tough to pull off, but doable I'm sure. :D
 

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Troy, did the ultra efficient and lightweight diesel lupo make it to france? They are still all over italy, and every time I am there, I really want one. What are the prices of gas and diesel in france right now?
Frank
 

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If we get off gas, then the benefits of a two seater will be nil...
Why? Seems like the benefits of a two-seater are there whatever the power source. Smaller, therefore lighter, therefore accelerates faster & handles better, etc. That's why most good cars over the years have been two-seaters, in practice even if (like some Porsches) they add a second seat-in-name-only.
 

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james said:
budomove said:
If we get off gas, then the benefits of a two seater will be nil...
Why? Seems like the benefits of a two-seater are there whatever the power source. Smaller, therefore lighter, therefore accelerates faster & handles better, etc. That's why most good cars over the years have been two-seaters, in practice even if (like some Porsches) they add a second seat-in-name-only.
Assuming technology comes to a point in say 5 years when most will be looking to replace the insight, and you can get substantial and economical range out of a plug in regardless of whether it is a 2 seater or 4, that is where the 2 seater will become an impractical novelty for most. Yet, I guess you're right, the insight sort of is just that for most anyway. If on the other hand, and this is where you are absolutely right, battery range has quadrupled for the same amount of money, or say there is a plentiful cheap clean energy source, then a sports car that doesn't really sacrifice much in the way of efficiency for the sake of acceleration, will be an attractive option for those that can afford a second car. As it stands, a four seater just doesnt seem to get great efficiency compared to a two seater, and that is why the insight compared to say the civic hybrid, is such an attractive option. In a post petroleum world, with more refined and advanced technology, I don't think this will the case. I would hope that in the future we will find an energy source that is so plentiful, or in the case of battery tech, that there'll be great range, without driving like grandmas anymore, because frankly I hate the tightness in my gut that I get when trying for efficiency in the insight. When we come to a point of having a sporty yet efficient car, then I am all for a two seater as a sports car more akin to a tesla (yet affordable), than a mediocre mpg cr-z that has an emphasis on sportiness, with efficiency taking backseat. My favorite cars are two seaters, and it fits 99.9% of my driving, don't get me wrong.
 

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budomove said:
I would hope that in the future we will find an energy source that is so plentiful.....
There's no such animal. There is always a limitation, because the earth itself is limited.

By the way, the 240mpg/1L car is a two-seater. The reason it gets such outstanding fuel economy is because it is only half-as-wide as the standard automobile, and therefore half as much air resistance. A battery-powered car, using that form factor, could probably go 300 miles (approximately twice the current limits of NiMH cars).

That's the benefit of a two-seater.
 

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ElectricTroy said:
budomove said:
I would hope that in the future we will find an energy source that is so plentiful.....
There's no such animal. There is always a limitation, because the earth itself is limited.

By the way, the 240mpg/1L car is a two-seater. The reason it gets such outstanding fuel economy is because it is only half-as-wide as the standard automobile, and therefore half as much air resistance. A battery-powered car, using that form factor, could probably go 300 miles (approximately twice the current limits of NiMH cars).

That's the benefit of a two-seater.
If hydrogen becomes viable, then that is one example of an unlimited resource, no?

I am well aware that the 1L is an inline two seater, and it provides, as you mention, much more efficiency than a four seater could, given current ic engine technology, which is the point I was trying to make with my long winded effort. I understand your point, and agree that a car with half the cd, and half the weight will always be more efficient, but the discrepancy between the two will hopefully shrink, or at least a resource like ocean water would make it so that we have such a clean, renewable and hopefully cheap resource that the difference in efficiency or cost effectiveness between the two seating options will not be great enough to opt for a two seater over a four seater for these reasons alone. I enjoy 2 seaters, and the 1L has been one of my favorites since its inception, and I wish that it were going to be cheaper than they are saying, and I really wish they would send it to the US eventually, although it would never meet our safety standards. :cry:
 

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If hydrogen becomes viable, then that is one example of an unlimited resource, no?
NO, NO, NO! Repeat after me: HYDROGEN IS NOT AN ENERGY SOURCE. (Unless you're talking about fusion, of course.) It's a way of storing energy. It has to be made, by splitting water, natural gas, or some other feedstock. You need to put energy in to get the hydrogen out, and of course the process is less than 100% efficient (often much less).

To most Americans these days, "hydrogen" translates as "magic", which is why I think it's a deliberate scam on the part of the current administration. They're promising people pie in the sky bye and bye - magic-fueled cars that'll let them keep driving their Hummers - so they don't have to explain to them why reality is going to force some serious changes to their sacred lifestyle.
 

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budomove said:
If hydrogen becomes viable, then that is one example of an unlimited resource, no?:
Point to an unlimited source of hydrogen. (Not water, but actual hydrogen.) Can I sink a well in my backyard and get hydrogen?
 

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It may be far off, but I am hopeful that something of the like will come to the foreground.
 

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Point to an unlimited source of hydrogen. (Not water, but actual hydrogen.) Can I sink a well in my backyard and get hydrogen?
Well, you could always build a space ship, blast off for Jupiter, and fill your tank there. All you'd need is antigravity, a reactionless drive, or something else out of the pages of "Amazing" :)
 

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I prefer "Asimov's" ;-)
budomove said:
It may be far off, but I am hopeful that something of the like will come to the foreground.
What? Hydrogen is just going to suddenly appear in my backyard? I doubt it. It simply does not exist in a drillable form in nature.

Instead you have to MAKE hydrogen, and making hydrogen requires an energy source to crack the water. Where is that energy source supposed to come from? Oil??? If yes, then you've not really solved anything.
 

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Perhaps I wasn't clear or thorough enough in communicating my thoughts. I said "if" it becomes viable, not it "is" viable, and I understand the basic process and that it requires energy to separate it from water. We are all speculating here on what the potential or feasability is with future technology. Cold Fusion may be 400 years from happening, but maybe hydrogen won't require that. We know nothing of what will happen in the future. With current technology, of course hydrogen makes no sense, but I never said it did, just that it might in the future. Present science and capability is one thing, and based on that we can have an argument. I only commented on a future possibility however unlikely based on current technology. It is like alchemy at this point, I can't argue with that.
 
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