Honda Insight Forum banner

2012 Insight might be dead?

10K views 56 replies 15 participants last post by  11593 
#1 ·
Hey everyone!
I'm the owner of a 2012 Insight and I really have enjoyed driving this car. I bought it for two reasons . . . . .ok three. 1) It's a Honda. Enough said. 2) I wanted something that got better than 35mpg and I was consistently averaging 49-51 when hypermiling. 3) No way in hell was I gonna be a prius owner lol.

History: Bought car with around 155k miles on it. It was towed behind an RV most it's life and it was in immaculate condition with very minor wear. Bought it for around $9,500 in March of this year. Not long after I bought, I noticed little puffs of smoke after I was coasting down a hill, came to a stop, and then gave it throttle to accelerate. Did some research and found that this motor has a ring problem allowing oil to get into the combustion chamber, hence the smoke. So Since then I've carried a funnel and a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 0w20 (I work for ExxonMobil) in the car to top it off. Fast forward to Wednesday last week. I'm going up a hill doing 64mph when I notice that I'm all of the sudden decelerating and losing power. Pull off to side of road and the car stalls out. The dash shoots me a slew of error codes. The ones I can remember are as follows - Check emission system, check brake system, check hill climb system, check tpm system, check vsa system. Absolutely NO check IMA system. Get towed home. It was showing symptoms of a bad battery because I would try to restart it and lights were getting dim and eventually just got a "click". Got battery tested and they said it was on the last 25% of it's life and it "may or may not start your vehicle in cold or hot conditions". So I bought a battery. Installed it and car starts with the smooth idle for a second, maybe two then idles rough at about 500 rpm and I have absolutely no throttle response when pressing on the gas pedal. Called Honda and with the symptoms I described they said it sounds like my IMA system is bad and the estimate is $2,500-$3,500 too fix. Again, no error code in regards to the IMA has shown up on my dash.

So, has anyone experienced this? I'm concerned because this is my commuter car. I drive 80 miles a day minimum to and from work. I read a post just doing a google search of some guy who experienced almost identical symptoms and he said he was told that oil fouled up the spark plug and that a ring job was in order.

I'm considering two things. I'll either pay to fix it or fix it myself, but I've never worked on this new of an engine. I'm not worried to, it's just I don't know if these engines are more finicky with all the electrical technologies linked to it. I'd love to get all your guys' input. I'm a firm believer in car forums as they've helped me learn about the cars I've owned and saved me lots of money.

Thanks,
BJ
 
See less See more
#2 · (Edited)
Hey everyone!

Welcome to the forum.

So Since then I've carried a funnel and a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 0w20 (I work for ExxonMobil) in the car to top it off.

Perhaps try a heavier grade oil to slow the usage down.

Fast forward to Wednesday last week. I'm going up a hill doing 64mph when I notice that I'm all of the sudden decelerating and losing power. Pull off to side of road and the car stalls out. The dash shoots me a slew of error codes. The ones I can remember are as follows - Check emission system, check brake system, check hill climb system, check tpm system, check vsa system. Absolutely NO check IMA system. Get towed home.

If it was a G1 we would say check the 12V ground cables if the dash makes like a xmass tree.

It was showing symptoms of a bad battery because I would try to restart it and lights were getting dim and eventually just got a "click". Got battery tested and they said it was on the last 25% of it's life and it "may or may not start your vehicle in cold or hot conditions". So I bought a battery. Installed it and car starts with the smooth idle for a second, maybe two then idles rough at about 500 rpm and I have absolutely no throttle response when pressing on the gas pedal.

Does the dash still go nuts after changing the 12v battery?

Called Honda and with the symptoms I described they said it sounds like my IMA system is bad and the estimate is $2,500-$3,500 too fix. Again, no error code in regards to the IMA has shown up on my dash.

Ahh yes, the ol', "You need the expensive battery changed." The dealers make a nice profit changing IMA batteries. If you don't get a specific IMA bat error code look elsewhere for the problem.

I read a post just doing a google search of some guy who experienced almost identical symptoms and he said he was told that oil fouled up the spark plug and that a ring job was in order.

That sounds more reasonable but I'd get the car to continue to run first since it idles OK.

Thanks,
BJ
Check the fuel pressure with a gage. The pressure should be around 40 to 45 psi.

When you first turn the key ON the fuel pump is supposed to run for ~2 seconds to build up fuel pressure and then it turns OFF until you actually start the engine. If it is very quiet outside you might be able to hear the pump run for those 2 seconds and then stop. That's normal.

If the fuel pump doesn't start running again when you crank the engine it will start and idle but die within 5 seconds or so (as you describe). With a fuel pressure gage on the fuel line near the injectors you will be able to see if the pressure remains normal when the engine starts.

It's possible that you have a badly clogged fuel filter but depending on where the filter is in the system in relation to where a fuel pressure gage would be attached it may not show up on the gage.

[edit] It's also possible that the pump only runs while you have the key turned to the Start position. I don't have a G2 schematic so I can't look up the wiring of the car.[/edit]

If the pressure doesn't remain around 43 psi you probably have some sort of electrical problem, a clogged fuel filter or a bad pump. So check the fuel pressure first.

Try to avoid the dealer. If you can get the car to run, some of the auto parts places will read the OBDII codes for free.
 
#3 ·
Hummm, electrical motor making the gas engine smoke ...? Doesn't seem to add up to me but been wrong before. Can you turn the IMA system off like in the gen 1 and try the car out?

I'd start with a compression test. I'm kinda old school, what with being old and all. Tossing out a blind guess, timing chain jumped.

== the fuel thing sounds like a good idea ==
 
#4 ·
Thank you so much for the replies fellas.

This is my first hybrid so I'm not familiar with them very much. However, my got also tells me it's not the IMA. When I bought it from another dealer the tech said it's basically brand new because it never got used being towed behind an RV. IDK.

I've got a scan gauge but it throws a code c1555 which from what I've researched it just means the scangauge knows somethings wrong but not sophisticated enough to identify it. I'll check the spark plugs and fuel pressure later. Can you point in the direction of how to do a fuel pressure test?

BJ
 
#6 ·
Even the replacement battery may be bad, he said while grinding his teeth...

Check the voltage, best of all keep a tool around to show 12V battery voltage at all times.
I set up my UltraGauge to always display battery voltage, so I know my battery is bad but not dead yet.
 
#8 ·
Correct, no alternator. The IMA system has a converter that charges the starter battery.

Yes, you can buy a bad starter battery too. I use to work at Sears and ours were only charged to 80% from the factory. If you have a battery charger Id use it over nite on yours or go back to the place and have them check it. Even a good testing starter battery can cause all the idiot lights to come on like you said.

The code you gave online shows it could be a loose gas cap to a bad cat. You may need to visit an auto parts store to get them to read your code or even a Honda dealer.

http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/troubleshooting-problems/61170-c1555-code.html

Scangauge read CEL (MIL) Code C1555 [Archive] - CleanMPG Forums

We have only 1 post here if I recall correctly of a guy who had a bad IMA battery. To get an error code the usable capacity is typically below 10% of the original capacity. An aftermarket battery is like 2 grand.
 
#13 ·
Yes, you can buy a bad starter battery too. I use to work at Sears and ours were only charged to 80% from the factory.
I had an old Jag that used two 6 volt batteries located one behind each front "wing" [fender]. I bought two 6 volt batteries from Sears and BOTH of them were bad!

Turned out they had a bad run of batteries from the manufacturer. This was a long-long time ago so don't take this as a common occurrence today.
 
#9 ·
The 2012 insights have a known piston ring issue. Sadly, because of the high miles I doubt Honda will help you with this as they are with the owners that have reasonable miles for the age. I guess this Insight was towed four down and therefore the high miles? How many miles have you put on it? I doubt it needs any IMA work. But it does need the ring job Honda has been doing to it's siblings. I bet it would still be a fine car with that work done, but it may be hard to justify the cost considering the miles and therefore the value.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 
#10 ·
should i bring my car to dealer?


j have a 2012 insight, i have 20k miles on it, do you all think i should bring my car in the honda shop and ask them about this piston ring issue with my car? i just dont want my car to have this problem? i plan on getting all my oil changes done and any service at the dealer.
 
#15 ·
We have a 2010 with over 80k that does not use any oil either. Based on posts here, this seems to be a problem that effected Insights starting in 2012. I assume the 2010 & 2011 engines have different rings. Also, based on posts here, this problem seems to show up after about 50k. So anyone with an Insight newer than 2012 should keep an eye on oil consumption. If it is not using any yet, then it isn't yet. It either will or I guess it's possible it may never. I would spend the extra $10. Or so to have the dealer do the oil changes though. That way you have good records should the issue arise after the warranty is up.

I bet the op vehicle here racked up those miles without the engine running and it is just now showing up as an issue because it is finally at the mileage tipping point.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App
 
#16 ·
Bought car with around 155k miles on it. It was towed behind an RV most it's life and it was in immaculate condition with very minor wear.
I guess this Insight was towed four down and therefore the high miles?
You guys do understand that the car won't accumulate miles on the odometer while it's being towed, don't you? It may be in immaculate condition with very minor wear, but if you were told it got most of those miles from being towed, you were fed a line by the seller. It's been DRIVEN those 155,000 miles. You might consider selling it as is, could bring more than you think.
 
#17 ·
I guess it depends if it was towed with the key on to run the lamps or some brake assist towing device?

Yeah, I read on the economy forums that when you FAS if you kill the ignition the new cars with digital odo do not count those miles or distance, mpg, etc when the key is off. I think the odb2 computers are the same way.
 
#24 ·
Hey everyone! Sorry for the late response. Been super busy with family stuff and getting my other vehicle squared away while I dig into this one. So here is my update . . .

Just tonight I decided to change spark plugs. I don't know if the cylinders are numbered from left to right or vice a versa, but the two middle ones were horrible. The spark plugs were literally corroded away. As in the little piece that elbows across which you would bend to increase/decrease the gap was actually eaten away. Couldn't believe it. This is honestly so discouraging because this is my first car I've ever taken a loan out on and it's been a problem almost from day one. Argh!!! I'm really good about keeping oil topped off (carry a 5 qt. jug of Mobil 1 0w20 with me). So I replaced all the plugs and fired it up. Runs the same with a rough idle. Then I lose the ability to give it throttle. Checked the exhaust and it smells like coolant (I could be imagining it) and I'm pretty sure I'm hearing a slight "knock" in the engine although its pretty faint at this point.

What do you all think my next steps should be? I'm thinking of taking it to the dealer just to get it diagnosed. If it's not terribly expensive to fix (lol) I'll have them do it. Otherwise, I don't see the point in rebuilding this motor with 160k miles. I can go onto ebay and there are a bunch of motors for under $500 and one of them only had 21k miles. Should I consider and engine swap and how hard would it be to do?

Thanks in advance,
BJ
 
#25 ·
I would recommend a swap, and swap it with a 2010/11 or 13. Not another 2012 engine. It's already a trend something bad happened to the engines on the 12's (at least from reports here on the forums).
 
#26 ·
Did you change all 8 plugs, or just the 4 easy ones?

If it comes to that, a used engine is going to be way cheaper than paying Honda to rebuild the one you have.

Sam
 
#27 ·
@ Rainsux - I did all 8. I was trying to figure out how to get behind the back side and then watched a youtube vid on it. Pulled the panels before the windshield. Made it way easier.

@ Balto - Here is the engine I'm checking out on ebay. 2011 Honda Insight Engine Motor Vin 2 1 3L | eBay

What would this all entail. I was thinking if I had to pickers I could have both motors side by side and swap out the A/C, pulleys, and other parts that won't come with the "new" motor. Do I basically disconnect the tranny then the motor mounts and applicable electrical connections? Honestly, after doing plugs yesterday it doesn't look like it would be all that hard to do. Maybe a full Saturday in the garage and I could have her done.

It's frustrating because I already owe on the car and I'm trying to explain to my wife why I haven't just taken it in to the dealer to fix because it's gonna cost probably a couple hundred for diagnosis but umpteen thousand dollars for a stinking rebuild. My point is that I'd rather by a used motor with less miles than rebuild the same engine with a lot of miles.

BJ
 
#28 ·
FREE SHIPPING?!?!?!?!?! $475 for an engine... :confused:

Balto, I want to hear how you swap engines in the gen 2 too. :evil: I was going to buy one to have some machine work done for performance and swap them at my leisure in my backyard.

Yeah caliber1, its a real fustercluck. Its irked me I had to service the cvt frequent as needed. Still Ive saved a ton on fuel.

Sounds like you may have a blown head gasket. Maybe worth the diagnostic fee to have Honda or some service center to check it out unless you can do a compression check on it.
 
#29 ·
Ok, I'be got a compression tester so I'll do that this weekend. I'm most likely gonna do the swap. I don't see the point in rebuilding a motor with 160k + miles when I can get a used one with only 24k for less than $500. My brother in law swung by today and looked and was surprised about how much space there is to work. He said it doesn't look that difficult at all really. Some questions . . .

1). Does the ima motor sit between the engine and the tranny? (Sorry, not super familiar with these yet)

2). Other than disconnecting the battery, would there be any electrical pre-work things I need to do before beginning the removal of the motor?

3). Any parts I should consider replacing while I have both engines out? (ie belts, hoses, etc)

Thanks! You all rock!

BJ
 
#30 · (Edited by Moderator)
I think it would be easier to get an engine with ima rotor and case attached so all you need to do is undo the transmission like in a traditional car.

I think the rotor requires a special tool or lots of playing cards/card board to properly wedge it not to damage any of the coils along the inside of the ima housing. The big magnet is attached to the crank.

Just change the fluids, oil and filter. May want to flush the cooling system if you havent already.
 
#31 ·
Thanks Cobb! I will be looking for an engine with IMA attached then. I haven't seen one yet, but I will refine my searches. It would be nice to find an IMA with lower mileage too anyways. My brother in law swung by on Friday and was looking at the car. He said after pulling that rear panel closest the windshield and if I pull off the hood that I have way more room than expected and that honestly it doesn't look all that difficult to pull. He also said to replace the serpentine belt along with the fluids. I didn't get around to doing the compression test this weekend like I had wanted, but I'll try again this week. If I order a motor, I'm gonna have to see if my work will let me ship it here because most place won't ship to residential addresses. Anyways, how much do you suspect the engine alone weighs?

BJ
 
#32 ·
Hey fellas! Another quick pregunta. What does all of this "VIN 2 6th digit" stuff mean? Are there different variations of the 1.3 WITHIN the 2010-2013 Honda Insight years? I just want to be sure that if I buy a 2010,2011, or 2013 (definitely not a 2012 lol) that it will be an exact fit. Sorry, my knowledge of these is minimal since I've only owned it since March.

Thanks,
BJ
 
#33 ·
Update: Did a compression check today on the second cylinder from the left (number 2?). Because it was one of them that had the super bad plug. Got a reading of 30 psi : / I didn't even bother with the other cylinders. I believe it is safe to say I should order the new to me motor and electric motor and be done with it? If anyone has any write ups or videos on removing these engines that would be greatly appreciated. Let me know what you guys think and if ya'll have any other tips. Wanna do this right.

BJ
 
#34 ·
I agree. Time for an engine swap. Depending on the cost increase, I don't think using your existing IMA motor would be a big deal.

A factory shop manual would be a big help and would answer many of the questions that will come up.

Sam
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top