My 2000 insight has 205000 miles and needs the catalytic converter, ima batteries and both modules replaced. I have not had to replace any of these before. Honda will help reduce the price of the parts by 25% the cost is still around $5600.00. I have a hard time justifing the cost on car with 205000 miles. coments or suggestions appreciated.
205000 miles
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How many more miles do you think you can get on the car? What kind of shape is it in otherwise? Do you love the car and want to keep it, or are you ready for a different car? It's only 6 years old, and it's a Honda. I'm going to keep mine as long as possible. You can probably lower the cost if you can find the IMA batteries from a salvage yard. You have two choices, spend the money for the repairs, or spend the money on a new or used car. I recall seeing someone on here with 250,000 or so miles on their Insight. Who knows how many more miles are left in your car? I would do it, but that's me. It all depends on how much you want to keep the car.
You will have to give us more details if you want a more reasoned answer. If it were me I would put in a second hand pack and forget changing the computers as there is probably nothing wrong with them, unless of course the computers failed and that burnt out the pack. Still you might find a deal on a used combo. As for the cat, will leaving it in cause you to fail an emissions test? I mean, is it really that bad or just not up to spec? Did all these things suddenly strike or was this the result of an emissions test. How bad is the IMA, marginal or completely dead?
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The MCM & BCM electronics are updates in most any 02 or older and optional but highly recomended.
See:
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 7&start=45
HTH!
See:
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 7&start=45
HTH!
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83 Posts
Just curious "skeet4me" have you owned it since it was new or was it recently purchased.? If it was the latter I hope you got a really good deal on it.
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You might also consider converting it to a non-hybrid. This may be sacreligious, but consider two options:
- Replace the engine and drivetrain with one from a Honda Fit. With the Insight's low weight, good aerodynamics, and by using Insight-style driving techniques, you'll still get good mileage.
- If you're a hyper-mileager, just take out the IMA-related stuff and drive on the small engine. That's basically what you'd be doing anyway.
In either case, by removing the battery and control units, the car will weigh a couple of hundred pounds less. And you'll have more luggage space.
- Replace the engine and drivetrain with one from a Honda Fit. With the Insight's low weight, good aerodynamics, and by using Insight-style driving techniques, you'll still get good mileage.
- If you're a hyper-mileager, just take out the IMA-related stuff and drive on the small engine. That's basically what you'd be doing anyway.
In either case, by removing the battery and control units, the car will weigh a couple of hundred pounds less. And you'll have more luggage space.
Thanks for the feedback. It's in great shape and I am the OBO. I still drive between 1500 - 2000 miles a week. My problems came on all at once, we do not have emissons test here in the Ozarks of Missouri and Arkansas.
If I disconnect my 12v battery and reset my computer it might charge for a day or two and then I need to reset it agian.
If I disconnect my 12v battery and reset my computer it might charge for a day or two and then I need to reset it agian.
As I'm writing this keep in mind that I'm a hybrid owner and lover.
When hybrids first came out some skeptics mentioned that it might be better in the long run if a car had energy saving features but was not a hybrid. Their reasoning was that a pack replacement would be really expensive compaired to the worth of the used vehicle. Honda and all the overly pro-hybrid people answered that the pack was designed to last the life of the vehicle and had a great warranty so there was nothing to worry about. In light of the situation with skeet-dude's car (and others) what do you think now?
Oh yeah, one of the other reasonings was that even if a pack needed to be replaced, they would be dirt cheap by the time anyone needed one.
Anybody remember those logics? Still feel the same way?
I never believed the "don't worry about it" crowd and that is part of the reason for going Honda over Toyota. Toyota's HSD is totally part of the way the Prius works. The Pruis really can't run unless the whole system is tip top. Honda's IMA is not nearly as important to the overall car and could be disabled if you didn't want to buy a new pack. Has anybody done this (disabling IMA) BTW?
When hybrids first came out some skeptics mentioned that it might be better in the long run if a car had energy saving features but was not a hybrid. Their reasoning was that a pack replacement would be really expensive compaired to the worth of the used vehicle. Honda and all the overly pro-hybrid people answered that the pack was designed to last the life of the vehicle and had a great warranty so there was nothing to worry about. In light of the situation with skeet-dude's car (and others) what do you think now?
Oh yeah, one of the other reasonings was that even if a pack needed to be replaced, they would be dirt cheap by the time anyone needed one.
Anybody remember those logics? Still feel the same way?
I never believed the "don't worry about it" crowd and that is part of the reason for going Honda over Toyota. Toyota's HSD is totally part of the way the Prius works. The Pruis really can't run unless the whole system is tip top. Honda's IMA is not nearly as important to the overall car and could be disabled if you didn't want to buy a new pack. Has anybody done this (disabling IMA) BTW?
That's interesting. If resetting the computer allows it to function normally for a couple of days then it sounds like one of two things. Either the battery is weak or the current sensing circuit is bad. If the current sensing is bad then it is probably beating up the battery. Unfortunately the Nmh batteries can not be measured for voltage like a lead acid battery and you can not do a hydrometer test on them either. That is why you need a computer to keep track of the current in and out of the battery. The computer resets its calibration normally if the battery voltage is unexpectedly low. This scenario would occur if the pack was failing or if a recal had not happened in some time causing the natural leakage and charge inneficiencies to make the computer loose track of where it was in the charge cycle. It is possible to do a current limited discharge cycle with a voltmeter and a calibrated load. This sort of test requires experience and caution. Do you have any friends neighbors or enemies that would be able to give you technical assistance. It doesn't sound like the mechanics at the local dealership want to get involved in something like this. Some have suggested doing a hill climb with a fully charged battery to get a rouch idea of the condition of the pack, but that would not be very accurate and would require you to have another car to use as a comparable. I know from Mike's MIMA project that the current sensor produces a linear voltage output that can be read with a high impedance voltmeter. I'm sure that there will be others who will be faced with this same issue in the future so it would be nice if someone could come up with a standard means of testing the battery pack that we could use. Since your problem occured suddenly, I suspect a mechanical failure of one of the cells in the pack. It might be possible to narow down the field by using the thermal sensors for the pack. Again I believe that Mike has developed something for this purpose.
Personally, although I'd love to save the planet, I would not try to deal with the cat replacement at this time. Give yourself a little breather.
The good news is that if you are able to properly diagnose the problem with the battery pack, that information will help others in the future. In the past the replace everything ask questions later approach has prevailed, usually because Honda has paid a good deal of the cost. I suspect that the old parts are sent back for failure analysis. I see where the new 2006 packs are suposed to be mechanically "more rugged". That seems to say that there have been mechanical issues with the old pack.
Keep us posted.
Personally, although I'd love to save the planet, I would not try to deal with the cat replacement at this time. Give yourself a little breather.
The good news is that if you are able to properly diagnose the problem with the battery pack, that information will help others in the future. In the past the replace everything ask questions later approach has prevailed, usually because Honda has paid a good deal of the cost. I suspect that the old parts are sent back for failure analysis. I see where the new 2006 packs are suposed to be mechanically "more rugged". That seems to say that there have been mechanical issues with the old pack.
Keep us posted.
Lakedude, the price of the batteries has been coming down. Unfortunately the demand for batteries has been going up at such a pace that the world is running out of cobalt which is a key element in the battery. For the price to really come down it is likely that we will have to see a new technology for the batteries such as the Valence design.
Meanwhile there is a growing need for battery testing and rebuilding, like the speedy muffler of batteries. :roll: Dang, I wish I could do it myself as I know someone is going to get rich franchising this. :wink: I still remember a time when disk brakes were some kind of miraculous mystery technology that no one had a clue about. :lol:
Meanwhile there is a growing need for battery testing and rebuilding, like the speedy muffler of batteries. :roll: Dang, I wish I could do it myself as I know someone is going to get rich franchising this. :wink: I still remember a time when disk brakes were some kind of miraculous mystery technology that no one had a clue about. :lol:
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3,008 Posts
You have 3 choices... 1> Fix Problem 2> Ignore Problem 3 > Get New Car
Option 1 > if you can find a mechanic you can trust who knows enough about the insight to tell you honestly if you need all of the $5,600 of honda repairs or what parts vital and why would you want to do the others?
Option 2 > Ignoring problem any number of ways.... one is to drive until car dies turning blind eye to lights in the car...... another is to keep doing the reset you have been doing.... another is to use something like MIMA to just turn off the IMA and Battery part or to control it as you see fit for whatever is left of it.
Option 3 > Get another Hybrid... driving as much as you do I would still recomend a Insight or one of the Hybrids at a minimum...
I found a used 2000 year Insight with only 87,000 Miles on it for under $8,000 it is in 7300 TELEGRAPH SQUARE DRIVE LORTON, VA at the bellow web site:
http://used-cars.autos.yahoo.com/usedca ... ljZSYmYj0-
or a used 2000 year insight with only 42,568 miles on it for $10,488 with vin number JHMZE1373YT000395 at the bellow web site :
http://www.carsdirect.com/used_cars/lis ... code=16801
Best of luck...
Over 200,000 miles though before major problems it actually good I think... and to answer the question about if it is worth it..... let me think about that.... 200,000 Miles at even just 60 MPG is 3,333 Gallons at $2.20 per Gallon would be $7,332 or the same 200,000 Miles at a normal car doing 30 MPG would be 6,666 Gallons at $2.20 per Gallon is $14,666.... yeagh a $7,332 savings.... Hmmmmm yeagh I like those numbers.... plus.... the added benifits of the Insight being better on the Environment with less pollution than the 30 MPG car allot less..... and gass prices will go up and the insight was the first and repair costs will come down... even though it is already more than cost effective to do it now... Heck between a trade in value if he did that reset trick and the $8,000 used one I found he would still be cheaper than the 30 MPG car.... plus the added earth freindly stuff
Of course to each thier own... but asking about my resolve about it the Hybrid system is worth doing... HELL YEAGH IT IS!!!! I would prefer a plug in Hybrid but those are comeing a bit latter down the line.
My 2 Bits
Option 1 > if you can find a mechanic you can trust who knows enough about the insight to tell you honestly if you need all of the $5,600 of honda repairs or what parts vital and why would you want to do the others?
Option 2 > Ignoring problem any number of ways.... one is to drive until car dies turning blind eye to lights in the car...... another is to keep doing the reset you have been doing.... another is to use something like MIMA to just turn off the IMA and Battery part or to control it as you see fit for whatever is left of it.
Option 3 > Get another Hybrid... driving as much as you do I would still recomend a Insight or one of the Hybrids at a minimum...
I found a used 2000 year Insight with only 87,000 Miles on it for under $8,000 it is in 7300 TELEGRAPH SQUARE DRIVE LORTON, VA at the bellow web site:
http://used-cars.autos.yahoo.com/usedca ... ljZSYmYj0-
or a used 2000 year insight with only 42,568 miles on it for $10,488 with vin number JHMZE1373YT000395 at the bellow web site :
http://www.carsdirect.com/used_cars/lis ... code=16801
Best of luck...
Over 200,000 miles though before major problems it actually good I think... and to answer the question about if it is worth it..... let me think about that.... 200,000 Miles at even just 60 MPG is 3,333 Gallons at $2.20 per Gallon would be $7,332 or the same 200,000 Miles at a normal car doing 30 MPG would be 6,666 Gallons at $2.20 per Gallon is $14,666.... yeagh a $7,332 savings.... Hmmmmm yeagh I like those numbers.... plus.... the added benifits of the Insight being better on the Environment with less pollution than the 30 MPG car allot less..... and gass prices will go up and the insight was the first and repair costs will come down... even though it is already more than cost effective to do it now... Heck between a trade in value if he did that reset trick and the $8,000 used one I found he would still be cheaper than the 30 MPG car.... plus the added earth freindly stuff
Of course to each thier own... but asking about my resolve about it the Hybrid system is worth doing... HELL YEAGH IT IS!!!! I would prefer a plug in Hybrid but those are comeing a bit latter down the line.
My 2 Bits
As far as I know all the IMA systems are the same except that ther have been some software changes over the years. I don't think the software changes would really make a difference. Sounds like a good lead.
Don't forget the first battery was included with the car. If the next battery lasted as long then your gas savings would be for 410,000 miles as compared to the cost of the battery. With the cost of gas going up the total dollar savings for gas will be over 15,000 dollars, perhaps enough to pay for the car outright!
Still, I hope you find the most cost effective solution.
Don't forget the first battery was included with the car. If the next battery lasted as long then your gas savings would be for 410,000 miles as compared to the cost of the battery. With the cost of gas going up the total dollar savings for gas will be over 15,000 dollars, perhaps enough to pay for the car outright!
Still, I hope you find the most cost effective solution.
While there are certainly plenty of examples of cars exceeding 200k miles, you are still starting to push the limits. It seems like that if were any other car, you would be deciding whether or not to replace the engine.
So, I'll pose a question to which the answer is probably unknown:
How many more miles are you going to get on the Internal Combustion Engine (rings, bearings, valve train, etc.) and how long before you need transmission work? How much will it cost to repair/replace these things? What about things like a clutch, shocks, etc? It seems to me that you should take all of this into consideration as you decide whether or not to replace the batteries, etc.
What about contacting the recyclers and replacing everything (IMA, engine, transmission) with a low mileage set-up?
I love my Insight and with the aluminum body, low volume production, and all around cool factor, replacing the batteries at 205k might be worth it, but I would think pretty hard about it. I also like the idea of replacing the engine with a standard IC engine and using the battery area to increase the storage area.
I'm rambling - good luck with your decision.
Jim
So, I'll pose a question to which the answer is probably unknown:
How many more miles are you going to get on the Internal Combustion Engine (rings, bearings, valve train, etc.) and how long before you need transmission work? How much will it cost to repair/replace these things? What about things like a clutch, shocks, etc? It seems to me that you should take all of this into consideration as you decide whether or not to replace the batteries, etc.
What about contacting the recyclers and replacing everything (IMA, engine, transmission) with a low mileage set-up?
I love my Insight and with the aluminum body, low volume production, and all around cool factor, replacing the batteries at 205k might be worth it, but I would think pretty hard about it. I also like the idea of replacing the engine with a standard IC engine and using the battery area to increase the storage area.
I'm rambling - good luck with your decision.
Jim
To answer the above, do a compression test and listen to the sound of the engine. If the compression is still good and the engine doesn't make excessive noise then you are in great shape. One of the other members put 500,000 miles on his previous Civic . I believe it was the one with the small lean burn engine, so a good comparable. Changing an engine is a lot of work. I've done it myself in the bad old days when I had a Turbo Diesel Rabbit that blew an engine. The replacement engine came with wheels and a rusted out body for two hundred bucks. :lol:
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Greetings skeet4me,
Like you I drive 7k a month. Considering that Honda is giving you a break on parts replacement is prolly how I would go. I'm already planing for some of it by looking into getting a salvaged insight for parts.
Like you I drive 7k a month. Considering that Honda is giving you a break on parts replacement is prolly how I would go. I'm already planing for some of it by looking into getting a salvaged insight for parts.
skeet4me said:
My Insight is in the shop NOW! $5800 I don't think so.
114K, two weeks ago I praised my car and Honda for the technology. Now, I'm not too sure. I drove my Insight when when the IMA light had come on a couple of times and sometimes the Check Engine light came on...but both went off after a couple of months and there seemed to be no effect to the car. This last time they came on and stayed on for a couple of months until my hybrid side went out... I drove one more week with the reduced power and then I took it in to the dealer. $5800.00 is the price to fix it they say. But now hearing some of you talk that maybe I don't need all three parts (Big Battery, Control Unit and Module Motor). The dealer said I could drive it without the hybrid side with no problem, like I had done for the last week. Then he called back and said no I couldn't. So now I hear from previous people, that there is a way of shutting that side down and go like I have been for the last week. I've gotten 50 miles per gallon and I'm perfectly happy with that. I just want a car back. I'm not happy with $5800 fix to a car that is worth about $7K-9K.
Has anyone had the dealer disconnect the hybrid side? If so, how much? How does the car run in the longterm?
Has anyone just replaced the battery and the other two parts were fine? That is only $3000. But if it doesn't work I'm out $3000 or have to spend the other $2800.
What size of Honda IC Engine would fit if I did change it to IC only?
Thanks to all that reply.
114K, two weeks ago I praised my car and Honda for the technology. Now, I'm not too sure. I drove my Insight when when the IMA light had come on a couple of times and sometimes the Check Engine light came on...but both went off after a couple of months and there seemed to be no effect to the car. This last time they came on and stayed on for a couple of months until my hybrid side went out... I drove one more week with the reduced power and then I took it in to the dealer. $5800.00 is the price to fix it they say. But now hearing some of you talk that maybe I don't need all three parts (Big Battery, Control Unit and Module Motor). The dealer said I could drive it without the hybrid side with no problem, like I had done for the last week. Then he called back and said no I couldn't. So now I hear from previous people, that there is a way of shutting that side down and go like I have been for the last week. I've gotten 50 miles per gallon and I'm perfectly happy with that. I just want a car back. I'm not happy with $5800 fix to a car that is worth about $7K-9K.
Has anyone had the dealer disconnect the hybrid side? If so, how much? How does the car run in the longterm?
Has anyone just replaced the battery and the other two parts were fine? That is only $3000. But if it doesn't work I'm out $3000 or have to spend the other $2800.
What size of Honda IC Engine would fit if I did change it to IC only?
Thanks to all that reply.
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