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Discussion Starter #1
So the subcode info says
CVT INPUT SHAFT (DRIVE PULLEY) SPEED SENSOR MALFUNCTION
POSSIBLE FAILURES
-Signal Line open/short
-Supply Line ope/short
-Ground line open
-Sensor failure

Reading the forums there is a lot of talk of bad spline or shaft, etc. I am not experience with major repairs like removing transmissions so is there advice on where and how to test these sensor(s) before arriving at "bad transmission, replace" and having it towed to a shop?

Back story (as it was told to me by my son)
"Took round about too fast, hit bump, transmission stopped shifting."

"D" light flashes. RPMs go up when shifting into R, D and L but no movement, no scary sounds. Car rolls fine in N. Fluid level is fine.
 

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How many miles on the car?

Possible/probable failure, splines in the flywheel.
The engine revs and the car doesn’t move or barley moves the speed sensor will show a problem code.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #4
How many miles on the car?

Possible/probable failure, splines in the flywheel.
The engine revs and the car doesn’t move or barley moves the speed sensor will show a problem code.

Scott


180k, the car revs but no movement. It doesnt feel like it's going into gear just revs (I know cvts aren't like normal automatics but you could still feel it change when it would go" in gear "which isn't there anymore)

I guess another way to ask this question is if it's a bad speed sensor or other sensor would it block the CVT from going into gear or is that not even an issue that could happen?
 

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I’m 90% sure it is not the speed sensor.
I’m 90% sure it is the splines in the flywheel.
We have been involved in about 10 of these failures at the shop. When the car has come in I’ve told the customer, 90% sure it is the flywheel splines. So far it has been 100% of the time.

I don’t know anybody else that has been involved in as many flywheel failures.

Scott
 

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^ Interesting. I was just glancing in the service manual for the P1888 code, for 2001-2004, and right off the bat it says: "This code is caused by an electrical circuit problem and cannot be caused by a mechanical problem in the transmission."

In any event, in the manual there's a simple troubleshooting guide to test this.

[edit] My fault, you said P1885, not P1888. Sorry 'bout that... On the other hand, the text for P1885 says the exact same thing. And it looks like it has the same troubleshooting guide.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I’m 90% sure it is not the speed sensor.
I’m 90% sure it is the splines in the flywheel.
We have been involved in about 10 of these failures at the shop. When the car has come in I’ve told the customer, 90% sure it is the flywheel splines. So far it has been 100% of the time.

I don’t know anybody else that has been involved in as many flywheel failures.

Scott
Scott,

What parts list am I am looking at sourcing for this repair? Whats the average cost I should be looking at for a average non-hybrid shop?


^ Interesting. I was just glancing in the service manual for the P1888 code, for 2001-2004, and right off the bat it says: "This code is caused by an electrical circuit problem and cannot be caused by a mechanical problem in the transmission."

In any event, in the manual there's a simple troubleshooting guide to test this.

[edit] My fault, you said P1885, not P1888. Sorry 'bout that... On the other hand, the text for P1885 says the exact same thing. And it looks like it has the same troubleshooting guide.

Do you have the steps and location?
 

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Do you have the steps and location?
It's in my paper version of FSM. There's a downloadable pdf version as a sticky at the top of discussions forum I believe. You'll have to get that and look through it, it's probably in there.

[edit] I looked through my pdf service manual and the same troubleshooting info is in there. It's in Honda-Insight-2000-2006/cvt_transmission.pdf, starting on pdf page number 146.

There's also relevant wiring diagrams and picts in HondaInsightPDFs/electrical troubleshooting manual/IS0006039003A.pdf, locate "drive pulley speed sensor" and click "VIEW" and "PHOTO."

Link to pdf service manual thread: Download 2000-2006 Insight Service Manual PDF and Others

There's multiple sources there, I think my stuff came from the two links at the very bottom of the first post, the downloads from retepsnikrep.
 

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I’m pretty sure the FSM doesn’t even address stripped flywheel splines and the codes associated.

Minimum you would need another flywheel and the associated special O-ring, available from Honda only.
The factory flywheel is list price about $750.00. There are other threads here on the forum with alternative parts from other years and models.

If the transmission hasn’t been serviced for a while, now is the time to consider it. There are 2 filters, 2 O-rings and a pan gasket. Then about 4.5 quarts of CVT fluid.

I used to have a source for remanufactured flywheels. The would machine out the center and install a new spline piece and weld it back in. They were $350 exchanged. The labor to do the in & out with a front suspension alignment was $450. Total $800.00. Plus transmission service if necessary.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I’m pretty sure the FSM doesn’t even address stripped flywheel splines and the codes associated.

Minimum you would need another flywheel and the associated special O-ring, available from Honda only.
The factory flywheel is list price about $750.00. There are other threads here on the forum with alternative parts from other years and models.

If the transmission hasn’t been serviced for a while, now is the time to consider it. There are 2 filters, 2 O-rings and a pan gasket. Then about 4.5 quarts of CVT fluid.

I used to have a source for remanufactured flywheels. The would machine out the center and install a new spline piece and weld it back in. They were $350 exchanged. The labor to do the in & out with a front suspension alignment was $450. Total $800.00. Plus transmission service if necessary.

Scott
Yikes might be the end of the road for this Insight......

Thanks for all the info !





It's in my paper version of FSM. There's a downloadable pdf version as a sticky at the top of discussions forum I believe. You'll have to get that and look through it, it's probably in there.

[edit] I looked through my pdf service manual and the same troubleshooting info is in there. It's in Honda-Insight-2000-2006/cvt_transmission.pdf, starting on pdf page number 146.

There's also relevant wiring diagrams and picts in HondaInsightPDFs/electrical troubleshooting manual/IS0006039003A.pdf, locate "drive pulley speed sensor" and click "VIEW" and "PHOTO."

Link to pdf service manual thread: Download 2000-2006 Insight Service Manual PDF and Others

There's multiple sources there, I think my stuff came from the two links at the very bottom of the first post, the downloads from retepsnikrep.

Thanks! I will look this all up tomorrow and cross my fingers
 

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I’m pretty sure the FSM doesn’t even address stripped flywheel splines and the codes associated.
I agree with Scott almost certainly spline failure. .

This failure isn't actually in the transmission, it's outside it in the mechanical interface between engine and CVT.

Honda didn't anticipate this unfortunate failure mode, so the electrical issue only workshop manual statement is misleading if you confine yourself to thinking inside the box.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Reading the forum it looks like there is no real way to confirm or deny this is the issue unless i pull out the transmission. (i was reading debate about turning the flywheel through the starter hole may or may not work)

Also I've only found one thread where someone talks about using a 2010 flywheel but it doesnt look like they are much cheaper via OEM. Unless any of these would work..... honda insght flywheel cvt | eBay

I guess i could push this in the garage and try to pull the tranny out, worst that happens is it ends up a parts car for someone and i lose my garage spot.......
 

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Only way to confirm is to pull the transmission.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #14
85062


Half way out....not super fun but what else are going to do right now......
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Still trying to pry out the drive shafts, on the drivers side it just doesnt seem like there is enough "slack" to get it pried out. I am getting some better pry bars which might help....will see. (doing this by yourself is slow, at least for me)


Also anyone know what part number the hub bolts are, i assume i should replace them since you bend them to remove them and the seal needed for the CVT flywheel? (anything else I should be ordering and not reusing to put this back together?)
 

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Sometimes it take 2 pry bars at the same time to kind of equalize the pressure, also try to give it a good snap/pop with the pry bar to get it to pop out.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Well the flywheel almost didn't come off...then it suddenly did. It has weird black powdery stuff coming out

How do these splins look?

85081
85082
85083
 

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The black powdery stuff is what used to be the splines.

The reason you had trouble getting the flywheel off, was there is a small lip of splines left that got hung up on the shaft.

Scott
 

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Once you clean the splines, they won't be there.
 
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