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Hi Bfivelover:

___I change out the Mobil1 0W-20 synthetic at 7,500 on all the vehicles not so much because of viscosity breakdown but because it is carrying quite a bit of burned and unburned hydrocarbons and a minimal amount of wear particles to small for the filter to catch. In other words, I don’t really care about the claims of the oil breaking down at 10,000, 30,000, or 50,000 + miles, I just want a fresh batch to carry all the “stuff” that you see when you drop the drain plug. Oil goes in almost clear/gold and it comes out black. Something is in it, and it is best to replace it every so often imho ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2m8f3fht][email protected][/email:2m8f3fht]
 

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Good synthetic oils (Redline, Mobil 1, Royal Purple, etc) should last a very long time in the car. The pure base stocks of the oil allow them resist breakdown. The problem lies within the filter. Oil filters aren't 100% efficient so there will always be a small percentage of particulates that stay in the oil. Over time, the number grows and your filter begins to loose even more efficiency. The oil is fine but it has all the crap the filter left still in it. Our oil capacities are so small that it's worth it to just replace the oil with the filter and be done with it.

Big rigs actually keep their oil for upwards of 50k miles. When they come in for mantinence, the filter is replaced and an oil sample is put through some tests. If it's still good, all 20 or so quarts are pumped back in. It's just too expensive not to run a semi's oil that long (even with the $10-20 oil sample test).

Spend the $15 on your Mobil 1 every 8k miles and rest assured that your oil is fine.
 

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xcel said:
I change out the Mobil1 0W-20 synthetic at 7,500 on all the vehicles not so much because of viscosity breakdown but because it is carrying quite a bit of burned and unburned hydrocarbons and a minimal amount of wear particles to small for the filter to catch.

Then just change the oil filter. It's a waste of money and good oil to change synthetics at 7,500 miles. If you are going to change it this early then don't waste your money on synthetic oil.

Oh and any particles to small for the oil filter to catch won't harm the engine.
 

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bfivelover said:
40,000 miles between oil changes?

You can only do that if you have a bypass filter. It constantly filters the oil to like-new condition down to 0.1 micron particles.

The stock in-line filter only removes down to 25 micron, and therefore leaves a lot of wear particles in the oil to slowly, but surely damage the engine.

troy
 
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Hi ElectricTroy:

___I don’t know about the stock filter but IIRC, any Champion Labs designed filter (Bosch, Purolator, Supertech) with their semi-synthetic media pull down 99% of particles at 10 microns or larger in the SAE multi-pass test. The Champion Labs designed Mobil1 with its all-synthetic media will pull down to 5 microns in the same SAE multi-pass.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2t8nmu4h]Waynegerd[email protected][/email:2t8nmu4h]
 

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xcel said:
The Champion Labs designed Mobil1 with its all-synthetic media will pull down to 5 microns in the same SAE multi-pass.

Okay... well, that still means you still have <5 micron particles in your oil and abrading your engine.

The bypass filter catches those small particles down to 0.1

troy
 

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So what is this bypass filter and how is it installed?
A number of years ago, there were some aviation oil and filter tests which showed that the paper filter elements (old technology now) filtered best in the first 50 hours of use while the fiber string like filters did best from 50-100 hours of use (aircraft change oil at 100 hrs use). Not long after that, Champion had a dual type filter with both types of elements in it, but I haven't seen one in quite a few years, but it makes me think that filter technology is more important than the oil technology these days.
Robert
 

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In-Line / Full-Flow Filter = What your car came with. It sits on the oil line & captures dirt as the oil passes through.

By-pass Filter = An add-on. It draws a little oil from the oil line & the oil very slowly "seeps" through (think of oil seeping through toilet paper). It takes about 10 minutes to filter the entire oil reserve (see picture).

In order to run your oil >20,000 miles, you NEED to have a bypass filter. Otherwise, the oil will collect too much micron-sized dirt & you'll do damage to your engine.





troy
 

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I plan on doing my changes at 7500 miles anyway, so is it worthwhile in that case? Besides that engine doesn't look much like mine. You must have the bigger one (LOL).
Thanks for the info.
robert
 

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7500 miles? Than no, don't bother with the bypass
 

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40,000 miles between oil change's?

Just to add to these interesting comments, I used to run and maintain diesel generators in the USAF and these hugh engines had oil capacities rated in oil drums.Needless to say we recycled this oil after centrifuging out the impurities similar to what has be advocated here with filters.The units ran 24/7 year round.

DGate
 

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While a lot of you said some interesting things, none of you seem to realize that the number one contaminant that oil carries is WATER! You're not going to find any oil filter that can strain water back out of the oil. Once the oil has reached it's saturation point and can no longer hold any more water in suspense, it will end up collecting on all the wear surfaces of the engine producing incredibly rapid corrosion.

Generally you don't want to go more than 5000 miles between oil changes, or 10,000 at the absolute most if you spend most of your time at light load, low RPM. I've seen people who went 50,000 miles without an oil change and the motor is completely destroyed at that point. No part of it is salvageable due to all the sludging and corrosion.
 

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I think AZcivic is exactly right. Especially for drivers who drive a short distance, and the oil never fully warms up. The water never completey burns out of the oil! Billy....
 

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Last time I heard water and oil don't mix. <g>

It's true that water will be the #1 "contaminant" but unless your trips are frequently below 5 miles in winter and around 3 miles in summer then most will "boil" off as the engine reaches operating temp.

HONDA did a destructive delayed oil change test on a 1983 Accord (all were equipped with a 2 stage oil pump and cooler). They simply drove the car and only added oil when 1 qt low. AFAI remember it made it to the low 50K miles range. Without adding oil 30K is a more realistic expectation for most new cars.

HTH! :)
 

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Insightful Trekker said:
Last time I heard water and oil don't mix.
I'm not sure about motor oils but many gear oils do contain an emulsifying agent to "blend" tramp water with the oil to keep the water from coming into direct contact with the metal that the oil is protecting.
It depends on the filter but a filter media containing paper usually has some capacity for capturing water. In these types of conditions, a monitoring system such as pressure differential gauges are used to indicate the service life of the filter. I work at a power plant and lubrication is a major issue for equipment reliability and operating cost. Each turbine has about 6000 gallons of lube oil.

Here is a link for some filter/wear data: http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/oilairandfuelfiltration2.htm
 

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AZCivic said:
WATER! Once the oil has reached it's saturation point and can no longer hold any more water in suspense, it will end up collecting on all the wear surfaces of the engine producing incredibly rapid corrosion. Generally you don't want to go more than 5000 miles between oil changes, or 10,000 at the absolute most if you spend most of your time at light load, low RPM.

Water should burn off once your engine reaches operating temperature (along with other nasty volatiles)

troy
 
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MAGNETIC FILTER

I place a magnet on my oil filter. It doesn't get the fine carbon stuff, but it grabs and holds any metal that would pass through the filter (not aluminum of course).

Works great!! I have cut filters open and you can see the black area of micro fine metal accumulated on the inside top of the filter! Better than a magnetic drain plug! A much stronger field and greater surface area.

Here's what I use:
http://www.generaltools.com/product.asp ... ectionid=4

To be extra safe - when doing an oil change, DO NOT REMOVE the magnet until AFTER you have removed the filter. You don't want to risk any possible back flow of fine metal into your oil pan.
 

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An Insight oil change is $25.

An Insight long block is $5000 (if I remember correctly). But even assume $2000 with labor.

At $2000, that's 80 oil changes, or 280,000 miles changed every 3500 miles.

Why not just change it at a regular basis? It's cheap insurance.

Or go with mobile 1 every 7500 miles. At $4/quart * 3 quarts = $12 + $8 for the filter = $20, doing it yourself.

That's 100 oil changes, or 750,000 miles before you get to $2000.

Am I missing something?
 

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To throw a dollar into the sewer costs $1.

My house costs $200,000.

At $1 each, that's 200,000 dollar bills chucked into the sewer.

Why not just chuck a dollar into the sewer every day? It's cheap insurance.

Or go with a fifty cent piece, it's only half as expensive for the same insurance!

Am I missing something?
 
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