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Citrus Car I have has 185 / / 14 tires tires even aired up to 80 psi terrible mileage. it also has no undertray at all.and I drive it slow when I drive .it's been sitting since September . I have not discharg the battery I did charge it up once. It's 18° Outside when it warms up I'll charge it and then discharge twice see what happens. Car has 107,000 miles. It's the one That I actually used air conditioning on back in August heaven. It's got both front seats muffler wipers and oh yeah it's green !!!!!regards five timers club member I love the smell of ozone in the morning!reckon what that suitcase weighs? That's where I found the car had been sitting there for two years. They parked it when the battery played out. It's a Nice Honder I think .
 

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My 2005 Insight has Dunlop 165/65-14 tires. Dunlops don't have a very good reputation for cars. How good or bad will they be on my MPG. I have only owned the car about a month. I am only getting currently about 47MPG but the lifetime on the car is about 56MPG.
I would not worry about the tires yet, but instead focus on making sure that your car is operating properly. My mileage was about the same as yours, but has gone up 10+ MPG after adjusting the valve lash and fixing my EGR valve.

There is a thread about flipping over the wiper inside the valve, and there is a way to see if your valve is iffy, but simply replacing it may be the best bet (hold on to the old one.) I would not trust a junkyard valve - I bought one and it tested bad.

I have also been running Shell V-Power (93) for the last few thousand miles. I have no way to tell if the V-Power is cleaning anything or even if anything needed cleaning. It hopefully removes bad gas as a possible contributor to poor mileage.

You should also check the condition and gap of your plugs.

With these changes, I went from a 45 MPG average to a solid 55 MPG over distance on the highway without hypermiling much. I just did a 50 mile round trip on local highways with my son this cold evening, ending with 58 MPG. This on one Dunlop, one emergency spare, and two worn RE92s (new tires on their way) filled to Honda's recommended pressure. I got 70 MPG on the 17 mile drive to work this morning and about 55 back.

This is like peeling an onion. Change one thing at a time, drive it a while, see if things change, then try the next thing.
 

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What spark plug do you recommend or stay with OEM. My cousin spent seven dollars a piece on the iridium plugs and he's doing just fine. I do know if your spare tire is at 60 pounds PSI you're losing 15 miles to the gallon just on one tire. I know that for a fact Jack. And I have been running 100+ psi for months on the spare.tires.
 

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I have also been running Shell V-Power (93) for the last few thousand miles. I have no way to tell if the V-Power is cleaning anything or even if anything needed cleaning. It hopefully removes bad gas as a possible contributor to poor mileage.
Higher octane fuel does NOT clean anything more than lower octane fuel. It's all marketing going, "clean" better. I really wish some lawyer is smart enough to sue the gas company that advertise higher octane fuel "cleans" better.

The ONLY thing higher octane do better is help engine resist knock/pre-ignition.
 

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My 2005 Insight has Dunlop 165/65-14 tires. Dunlops don't have a very good reputation for cars. How good or bad will they be on my MPG. I have only owned the car about a month. I am only getting currently about 47MPG but the lifetime on the car is about 56MPG.
Welcome to the forum.

Even 56 mpg is considered low. :D

Please add a little info about your car as others have done. It will help us to answer your questions. For instance the CVT Insight doesn't get the same max mpg as the manual xmission cars. The USA CVT Insights do not have the lean burn mode which the MT cars have. A weak IMA battery can reduce your mpg because it has to charge the hybrid battery more often than a good battery.

Also add your general location. You may find a local Insight owner who can help you learn about the car etc.

We need more info about the conditions you are driving in. Open road vs urban traffic, what speed do you typically drive at, snow, cold weather, wet roads vs dry roads all make a difference in the mpg you can get.

If your tires are the run of the mill type you can probably expect to see a 5%+ increase in mpg with Bridgestone RE-92 tires after the tires are broken in. I saw ~9 mpg increase driving the car home after installing RE-92s instead of the ratty 175x14 worn tires that were on my car when I bought it. When the RE-92s got broken in I got a few more mpg increase.

In dry, warmer weather a lot of us run 55psi in the front tires and 50psi in the back tires. The ride is rougher but it's not as bad as my avatar Lotus 7 replica with the doughnuts it has.

If this is your first Insight then it will take awhile for you to learn how to drive it to get better mpg out of it (assuming the car is running correctly etc). Actually you may have to adapt to a very different driving style if you want to get max mpg compared to what you are getting now.

As one forum member put it, "Driving an Insight is like being IN a video game. The object of the game is to get max mpg [all the time]."

There are several threads on the forum that outline what to do to get good mpg. Use the search function to find them. The best advice to increase your mpg is ............ -slow down-.

When I bought my car from the 1st owner the lmpg was also 47 mpg. I had already learned how to get the max mpg with my CRX-HF without all the gages the Insight has to show you the mpg. When I got the Insight I first applied the same driving style and picked up other tricks that are unique to the Insight. My lmpg is now ~67 mpg in urban traffic. I was averaging 51 mpg per tank with the CRX going back and forth to work.
 

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We'll see let me tell ya your car it's only got 43,000 miles on it. You need to get my car it has 215,000 miles on it see it's broke in. Gets real good mileage i'll do you a favor we'll swap cars and you give me an extra let's say 1000 on the trade. And I'll let you keep the new RE 92's for free and that O2 sensor that I think so much of. You'll love the mileage. If this goes through I love Blowen smoke early in the morning !!! But seriously folks don't know where you're from but it's nice to have a 42,000 mile car way to go !
 

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Long ago.

Back in the mid 1970's, I had a Cadillac Seville with a huge engine. Gas was about $.35 a gallon. The Caddy had a new feature. There were two lights on the dash, one red and one green. Simple enough, it was indicating engine vacuum, just like the green bar indicator in the Insight. Even though gas was dirt cheap, (by today's standards), I got used to keeping the green light on most of the time by subconsciously keeping the green light on most of the time, even by very gently acceleration.

I have been driving the Insight for about three weeks and I already use all the gauges subconsciously. Never in low range. Accelerate slowly and modulate to charge/motor assist gauge in the green, and keep the vacuum gauge above 50.

I looked at the plugs, they look like they could be original or dealer replaced. They are NGK indexed and those are impossible to find except through Honda or Honda specialty suppliers. They are clean and don't look worn or burned and are a light tan color. I did mark them though and when I reinstalled, they didn't seem to line up with the exhaust valve.

I can't say that it would be worth it to spend over $200 for an new EGR valve. Have to give that some thought.

I did discover that there is no lower engine cover. As best I can find out, it comes in three pieces, and front, a right rear and a left rear. I have none. I read that I should see a huge improvement if I find and install those.

Like I said, I have Dunlop Enasave tires in 165/65-145. I think the pressure is in the mid 30's. I will try running them up to close to the tire max and put about 42 in the front and 40 in the rear and see what that does.

I don't think it would be cost effective for me to replace the coils with new $300 a set NGK's. Would it do any good to replace them with Chinese made one at $75 a set?

Is one 0w20 oil better than another for gas mileage?

When I first got the insight I took it to Green Tech and they ran codes and checked it out and said there were no codes. They said the battery system was functioning correctly. Don't know if they can tell if the battery is sub par or not though.

I am driving in North Texas around Dallas. I do a 60 mile round trip each week on the interstate. I drive about 68 to 72 most all the way. I want cruise control. Will that help or hinder the mileage?

It has been pretty cold for the last week, and I will be interested to see if the mileage changes when the weather warms up.

All for now, Mick
 

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Charge/Assist

BTW, my charge gauge moves around a lot and I cannot always figure out when it is charging. I try to maximize the charge/assist gauge by letting off to make it show green, but I cannot tell if it changes the charge level. Is it charging even if the charge/assist gauge shows neither? Sometimes I may not look at the gauges for a bit and suddenly the charge level is maxed. Then I let off the gas and even though I am going say 65 and decelerating, the green on the charge/assist gauge does not illuminate. Does that mean that it is maxed and the system is stopping the charging?
 

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Please put your Location in your Profile, as ALL G1 Insighters have done.
Thank You.
Willie
 

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I looked at the plugs, they look like they could be original or dealer replaced. They are NGK indexed and those are impossible to find except through Honda or Honda specialty suppliers. They are clean and don't look worn or burned and are a light tan color. I did mark them though and when I reinstalled, they didn't seem to line up with the exhaust valve.

If they are the correct index they should be aligned OK. The first tune up for an Insight is at 105000 miles. What is your car's mileage?

Like I said, I have Dunlop Enasave tires in 165/65-145. I think the pressure is in the mid 30's. I will try running them up to close to the tire max and put about 42 in the front and 40 in the rear and see what that does.

I don't think it would be cost effective for me to replace the coils with new $300 a set NGK's. Would it do any good to replace them with Chinese made one at $75 a set?

Good idea to use higher tire pressure. 30 is way to low for an Insight.

The car will present a DTC if the engine is misfiring. No use throwing parts at the car hoping something good may occur.


Is one 0w20 oil better than another for gas mileage?

Probably not if it's really 0-20 from a reputable manufacturer. I'm using Mobil 1 synthetic 0-20 wt.

If someone else changes it check the oil afterward. The dealer the original owner of my car used for oil/filter changes was putting 4 and FIVE qts of oil in the car at every oil change!! An Insight only needs 2.6 qts with an oil-filter change. The car had 4 qts in it when I drove it home after buying it. I checked the oil and at first couldn't find the dipstick "full" hole because the oil was over an inch above the hole!


I am driving in North Texas around Dallas. I do a 60 mile round trip each week on the interstate. I drive about 68 to 72 most all the way. I want cruise control. Will that help or hinder the mileage?

Not knowing what transmission you have ........ with the MT car you are driving it almost too fast to get into lean burn at 68 mph and most likely won't get into lean burn at 72 mph unless you are going downhill. If you have a CVT forget about lean burn.

With either transmission, slow down to 64 mph and see what happens. At ~2800 rpm the engine opens the other 3 intake valves which is done normally to give you more power. You want more mpg not power.

If you are driving in hilly country I would guess cruse control will waste gas going uphill and might slow you down too much going down hill.

The idea is to have enough speed to go up the hill as far as you can while staying in lean burn. Then let the car speed up on it's own downhill (getting great mpg) to make it over the next hill in lean burn. An 1/8" change in throttle position can make a tremendous change in mpg.

At a steady 64 mph on a 56 mile flat S. Fla road my MT car got 78 mpg on a ~125 mile out and back drive including some in urban traffic driving. And part of that was with the A/C running on the return leg. At 30 mph in my town I usually get 90 to 120 mpg in 3rd gear (depending on all sort of external variables).


It has been pretty cold for the last week, and I will be interested to see if the mileage changes when the weather warms up.

All for now, Mick
Your 60 mile run is great to compare different variables about your car. Try driving at 64 mph before a semi passes you and see what happens. I jammed my foot against the tunnel so I wouldn't change the throttle setting. I was getting 85 mpg with a friend with me (that accounts for the "low" mpg :) ) and as I got into the draft alongside the truck my speed went up to 72 mph and I was cruising along at 120 mpg in lean burn! Of course the wind buffeting was not something I'd want to put up with for a long time but it was interesting to see the changes that happened.

Please put some info about your car so we don't have to guess when answering your questions.
 

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In one of my posts I indicated the info about the car, but I haven't figured out how to connect the info to my profile.

for now, suffice it to say that about a month ago I bought this 2006 Honda Insight with CVT. It had 150,000 miles on it. I drive it almost exclusively in north east Texas. It has Dunlop 165/65-14 Enasave tires on it. If there is something else I need to indicate, then let me know.

Mick
 

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You can put your Insight info in your "signature."
You can also put your town or city in your Profile as others have done. You might be surprised that another Insighter lives in your town.
 

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There are alternatives to the $200 Insight EGR valve. I paid $35 for a new Honda EGR valve.
The honda Accord and Odyssey use the same as the insight

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163538685907
+1

@mr.ridout It is possible to test the EGR valve to tell if it has a damaged potentiometer. Google "EGR tester site:insightcentral.net" to find my posts on the tester I built in which I have plotted what the ECU sees when it is looking at a damaged EGR valve. These valves are designed poorly and used in such a way that they wear out in the small area where they are used.

To test it yourself without building an automated tester, the general idea is to take the valve out and apply 10 volts to hold it open, then push it closed with your finger while measuring the potentiometer with an ohmmeter that has an old school analog meter (about $10 at Wal-Mart). While letting it open up (very slowly) the needle should change smoothly. If the needle jumps then goes back down, the valve is bad because the potentiometer substrate is worn. It may also be bad if the internals are worn and if this causes it to bind while opening and closing. I am working out a test for this last issue because this car is my hobby. But most people are going to want to pay $35 to see if it works, and if not, they have a spare valve for when it does die, or to swap with someone for another part.

Also, the valve lash is an easy adjustment. It too made a noticeable mileage improvement and made the car run a little more smoothly.

You may find that neither of these make a difference for you. But they can be knocked off the list in an afternoon and a few beers, and if found bad, can make a substantial improvement.
 

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About that cruise...

Depending on the route you drive it can be a boon or a bane. In mine, on mostly level ground, it's almost as good at lean-burn as me. If it's hills of any steepness, it ain't so hot and kicks the car into assist too much.

I put a clutch switch (also called a calpod) in mine to turn off the charge and assist at highway speed. Makes the cruise *far* more useful.

At 65+ mph lean-burn is tough unless the traffic is fairly heavy and you can get into its wind. If you have headwinds, even slight ones, at higher speeds lean-burn is an exercise in frustration--even on flat or slightly downhill roads.
 

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Higher octane fuel does NOT clean anything more than lower octane fuel. It's all marketing going, "clean" better. I really wish some lawyer is smart enough to sue the gas company that advertise higher octane fuel "cleans" better.

The ONLY thing higher octane do better is help engine resist knock/pre-ignition.
Hi tryingbe,

Before I address the fuel topic, thanks again for the 505 ECU. I have acquired a compatible AF sensor and after I add the necessary wiring and find a way to keep my third sensor from fouling it will be ready to test.

On the 93: I am aware that octane is a metric related to burn rate and not cleaning power. Also, that all gasoline must be sold with certain additives. I believe this is an EPA requirement to help mitigate fouling and the resulting increase in pollution.

In addition to this, there is a program called Top Tier which defines additional additives above the federal minimums. All retail locations of participants in the Top Tier program must display the logo and all grades must have the additives. Participants include Shell and other name brands; Costco gas is also Top Tier branded. Sheetz, a regional brand, is not, and so I have stopped purchasing fuel there because it is not clear what, if anything, ttey add beyond the federally required minimum.

So why V-Power? And why 93? Top Tier does not stop a company from marketing additional additives, such as V-Power and BP Ultimate. But V-Power is only advertised for 93. (I believe most (all?) mid-grade fuel is just a blend of 87 and 93 so 89 would have some of the "V-Power" additives. From what I have read, I would prefer to run 87 (or higher only if the car detects knocking and alters the timing). But I choose 93 to get the benefit of the additional additives that Shell is marketing in that grade.

So why am I buying into this "snake oil" marketing? Because of this complaint against Shell by BP against the very same snake oil marketing!

The NAD basically found that the evidence did not support the claim thay V-Power was *better* than its competitors and told Shell to cease making many of its claims. However, it did find that, to quote the release, "the standalone claim “no matter what you drive, this formulation works in all types of engines, both conventional and modern” speaks to Shell formulation’s ability to protect from and clean “gunk” and was supported by the evidence in the record."

and that

"Further, NAD determined that the advertiser’s use of an image of two intake valves, one with “gunk” and one without, was not misleading as long as it discloses that the image depicted test results from a port-injection engine on SVPN+ and a LAC gasoline."

LAC stands for lowest additive concentration which means that all US gas must have at least this amount of additives.

So that ruling tells me that Shell's V-Power additive cleans better than the federal minimum. It suggests that other companies' additive blends like BP Ultimate are comparable and that I could have just as easily chosen theirs. It doesn't indicate whether it those additional additives are better than the Top Tier blend. As a result I will avoid those places selling only the minimally required additive gasoline.

So yeah, there is some possibility that it is no better than a Top Tier 87. And yes, a quick check of forums report a bunch of people happy with buying Sheets gas for years.

However, in my quest to sort out my mileage issues, buying this fuel for 5k miles (and sticking to one brand) eliminates a variable and may have a real cleansing benefit at a cost differential of 60 bucks. Once I have found the remaining mechanical issues with my car, I will switch back to a Top Tier 87 and stay there if knocking is not impacting timing.
 

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Looking forward to your results on 505 ECU. Just for fun could you test it with IMA battery switched out or bypassed . Just wondering if the programming is more related to assist and regenerative opportunities. In other words are the ECUs the same across the board when they're not controlling assist and regent.
 

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IIRR when the ECU were updated, it was mainly for "EMISSIONS".
It had nothing to do with the Assist or Regen.

Willie
 

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In one of my posts I indicated the info about the car, but I haven't figured out how to connect the info to my profile.

for now, suffice it to say that about a month ago I bought this 2006 Honda Insight with CVT. It had 150,000 miles on it. I drive it almost exclusively in north east Texas. It has Dunlop 165/65-14 Enasave tires on it. If there is something else I need to indicate, then let me know.

Mick
With a CVT about the best mpg you can expect is 75-80 mpg from what I've read other CVTers get. That's about what the MT Insights get when not in lean burn. But even the slightest downgrade will up your mpg quite a bit.

There's one long road near me that looks to be level but I always get a little more mpg when heading East on it rather than West. After awhile you will recognize which sections of road are high or low mpg areas.

The Japanese CVT cars do have lean burn and several people have bought the Japanese ECUs and modified the wiring of their CVT car to have lean burn. I don't recall reading what mpg they are getting though.

I found out a long time ago with a sick VW that you don't have to be that close behind squarish SUVs or trucks to get some advantage of drafting. Even 200 feet back gives some affect. If there is a cross wind you might have to move to the downward wind lane. Look at the high grass or trees on the side of the road to see what the breeze is doing.

Even stranger is once in awhile after you fill the car up with gas & you will get tremendous mpg. Twice now I was getting somewhere over 150 mpg at 40 mph for the 7 miles to drive home.

My theory is that the gas station gas fume recycling attachment on the gas filler nozzle isn't working (or you just overfilled the tank too much) and the fumes (and maybe some raw gas if you overfill) in the tank are forced into the emissions canister. When you leave the station those fumes/gas are drawn into the intake system and the ECU leans out the mixture because the fumes aren't accounted for to set the mixture the car wants to see. And with lean burn that can change your mpg from [say] 90 mpg to 150++.

The first time that happened I thought my dash had gone crazy. I reset the "segment" odometer and the mpg went right back to 150++. Unfortunately when I turned into my street and accelerated a little to get to my house the mpg for the 0.6 mile was 'only' 146 mpg. :( I took a picture of the dash for the record.

These cars aren't just transportation. They can be an entertainment device if you go with the flow and pay attention to what it is doing. Like, "Darn, I only got 70 mpg on that shopping trip." :grin:
 

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BTW, my charge gauge moves around a lot and I cannot always figure out when it is charging. I try to maximize the charge/assist gauge by letting off to make it show green, but I cannot tell if it changes the charge level. Is it charging even if the charge/assist gauge shows neither?

The car can also do what we call "background charging". That doesn't show on the charge (green) bars. The OBDIIc&c device that Peter Perkins, one of the forum experts, sells can be set to show all charging on the 8/16 data point screen. It's a very good investment if you plan on keeping your Insight and want to learn and/or do your own maintenance.

Sometimes I may not look at the gauges for a bit and suddenly the charge level is maxed. Then I let off the gas and even though I am going say 65 and decelerating, the green on the charge/assist gauge does not illuminate. Does that mean that it is maxed and the system is stopping the charging?
Yes, the ECU controls the charging of IMA battery pack and attempts to keep it charged between 20 and 80%.

If the car has a weak battery you will sometimes see the SOC display suddenly drop to a few bars and the car feels sluggish while it does a "negative recalibration". That means the gas engine is also charging the IMA battery in the background which the charge gage doesn't display.

The SOC display will slowly rise to about ~1/2 scale and seem to stick there for awhile and suddenly jump to the top.

The car is telling you to get a grid charger and give it some battery maintenance. You can buy ready to use chargers from several form member's companies or even build your own for under $100.

Even new IMA batteries ought to be "grid charged" after about a year of use. This helps to keep the individual cells of the battery pack "balanced" so they all perform better. It's like a chain, one bad link messes up the chain.

See my website for details.
 
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