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45mpg?

7K views 39 replies 18 participants last post by  olrowdy01 
#1 ·
So I picked up a manual 2000 insight with 42k miles about 1000 miles ago. IMA battery is working fine but the car has some generic 185/60/14 tires. I’m currently hovering between 45 and 46mpg and I’m wondering if those tires are killing my mileage that bad. Thanks!
 
#3 ·
+1 to 442.

Yes the tires are killing your MPG to the tune of 8-10. The car was designed for the RE92, so everything else is down hill MPG wise. A heavy generic type tire could easily cost you 10 MPG, and you will never be able to get really good numbers with that tire, but..............

Gas is currently cheap, so look at the tires and see how many miles they have left in them. If it is 15-20,000 miles, you can kinda do the math for ROI in a new set of RE92. 45+ MPG is still pretty good relative to a Ford F150;)
 
#4 ·
Mileage is greatly influenced by how and where you drive. The learning curve is steep. It isn't like any other car you have driven. Of course you want the car to be "right", but the nut behind the wheel is the main factor. Short trips are bad. Stop and go is bad. AC use is bad. Cold weather is bad. Going fast is bad. Headwinds are bad. Etc. And yes, those big heavy tires are killing you.

Sam
 
#5 ·
Yeah I’ve definitely found there’s a learning curve. I’ve learned to not lean on the battery as well as how to keep it charged. When I first got it I was averaging 39 mpg but am up to 45-46 just by changing driving habits.

I forgot to mention until I read it in here that it doesn’t have that cover under the engine either. I’m guessing that’s not helping any either.
 
#12 ·
Scott? Who is this guy? My 2005 CVT just trashed all its undercover panels and after calling several sources it's $500 for four engine covers. No shop will install anything a customer brings in so even if I could find this Scott guy, how would I install it? I think I could jack the car up safely and block it well to make enough room.

I'd be okay with losing 2-3 mpg but I'm concerned with road debris flying up and doing damage.
 
#8 ·
Not only do the RE-92's improve your mpg, but they make your car easier to drive (maintain lean burn). Replaced my RE-92's for Michelins and have regretted it ever since.
 
#9 ·
If you are not correcting for the error in distance you travel vs the dash indication your mpg will be off because of the tire size difference between 185 and 165.

My MT car had a lifetime (lmpg) of 47 when I first bought it from the original owner with 175 tires on it. I put a set of RE-92s on it later and picked up about a 5% mpg increase as soon as I changed the tires. After a few tanks of gas I was getting a ~10% total mpg increase over the 175 tires. I reset the lmpg after a year of driving the car and it is now averaging 66 lmpg in town with the right tires on it etc.

What is the mpg lmpg on your car? Does it go into lean burn? What is your typical driving pattern? High speed commuting, stop and go traffic, cold weather etc? All of them kill mpg.

A lot of us are also running more tire psi than normal which helps get more mpg (55 psi front and 50 psi rear is typical). I would not change an older tire to those pressures because an older tire is already stretched to the pressure used up until now. One of my 175s developed the start of tread separation after I started running 55/50 in them.

If your car has over 110,000 miles and hasn't be maintained recently it probably could use a valve adjustment and spark plug change. Are you running the normal 0-20wt oil in the car?

Please fill in a little detail about your car in the avatar area. You'll see that the large majority of us have done so.

That will help people to diagnose any problems you might have with the car. And with luck another Insight owner that is near you might help with any problems you have.
 
#10 ·
I've put 1000 miles on my Insight and am still learning how to drive it for best mileage. If you got this mileage on a long road trip on the highway, then Something is Wrong. If this is around town, then it could be the tires plus not knowing the best techniques.

Or, it may be that Something is Wrong. On mine, the prior owner was getting this kind of long term mileage, and is not an aggressive driver. I've been slowly repairing the car and also not satisfied with the mileage (I have RE-92s reaching end of life). I recently fixed an exhaust leak and now I am getting an engine code for a lean mixture. I'm now suspecting low fuel rail pressure due to a possible leak in the fuel line in the tank (long story, and probably does not apply to you).

Honda Hybrid442 has told me that tires like your 185 60R14 are not going to give you that much a hit in mileage, especially after they break in. (Are your tires properly pressurized?)

I actually really like the 185 60R14 tire size. I once put some Yokohama 185 60R14 tires on a car that originally had 13" "bicycle wheels". I did not know until now that this car weighed only 150 pounds more than my Insight. It cornered like a dream with those tires and a modest shock-and-sway-bar upgrade, which arguably is "stock" for an Insight. So I'm really looking forward to similar tires on the Insight, as it seems that the added cost in reduced MPG is balanced by the substantially lower cost of these tires, with a boost in comfort as a benefit. So beware than an upgrade to RE-92 might disappoint?

I've been thinking of trying to find a local Insight hypermiler to drive around with me, basically call out my bad habits, correct my misperceptions, though @Natalya has offered some good tips recently in the What Did You Do To Your Insight Today thread. Perhaps you can find a member in your area to ride with you, then get some new numbers in both highway and city regimens.

I was really surprised by the power the Insight can put out during acceleration if you take it to 4000-5000 RPM. So if you are driving the Insight for its fun factor (which I had no *idea* it had before I bought mine) then 45 MPG is not so bad.
 
#13 ·
I’m the Scott guy?.

Thanks for the referral HH442.

Here is a link to the YouTube video.



You can PM me through the forum, I can also be reached 8:am-9:pm, PST, 909-605-3810.

Thanks,
Scott
 
#18 ·
"Rhino Ramps" are a time saver for us old folks.
 
#20 ·
Dunlop Enasave tires

My 2005 Insight has Dunlop 165/65-14 tires. Dunlops don't have a very good reputation for cars. How good or bad will they be on my MPG. I have only owned the car about a month. I am only getting currently about 47MPG but the lifetime on the car is about 56MPG.
 
#22 · (Edited)
My 2005 Insight has Dunlop 165/65-14 tires. Dunlops don't have a very good reputation for cars. How good or bad will they be on my MPG. I have only owned the car about a month. I am only getting currently about 47MPG but the lifetime on the car is about 56MPG.
I would not worry about the tires yet, but instead focus on making sure that your car is operating properly. My mileage was about the same as yours, but has gone up 10+ MPG after adjusting the valve lash and fixing my EGR valve.

There is a thread about flipping over the wiper inside the valve, and there is a way to see if your valve is iffy, but simply replacing it may be the best bet (hold on to the old one.) I would not trust a junkyard valve - I bought one and it tested bad.

I have also been running Shell V-Power (93) for the last few thousand miles. I have no way to tell if the V-Power is cleaning anything or even if anything needed cleaning. It hopefully removes bad gas as a possible contributor to poor mileage.

You should also check the condition and gap of your plugs.

With these changes, I went from a 45 MPG average to a solid 55 MPG over distance on the highway without hypermiling much. I just did a 50 mile round trip on local highways with my son this cold evening, ending with 58 MPG. This on one Dunlop, one emergency spare, and two worn RE92s (new tires on their way) filled to Honda's recommended pressure. I got 70 MPG on the 17 mile drive to work this morning and about 55 back.

This is like peeling an onion. Change one thing at a time, drive it a while, see if things change, then try the next thing.
 
#21 ·
Citrus Car I have has 185 / / 14 tires tires even aired up to 80 psi terrible mileage. it also has no undertray at all.and I drive it slow when I drive .it's been sitting since September . I have not discharg the battery I did charge it up once. It's 18° Outside when it warms up I'll charge it and then discharge twice see what happens. Car has 107,000 miles. It's the one That I actually used air conditioning on back in August heaven. It's got both front seats muffler wipers and oh yeah it's green !!!!!regards five timers club member I love the smell of ozone in the morning!reckon what that suitcase weighs? That's where I found the car had been sitting there for two years. They parked it when the battery played out. It's a Nice Honder I think .
 

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#23 ·
What spark plug do you recommend or stay with OEM. My cousin spent seven dollars a piece on the iridium plugs and he's doing just fine. I do know if your spare tire is at 60 pounds PSI you're losing 15 miles to the gallon just on one tire. I know that for a fact Jack. And I have been running 100+ psi for months on the spare.tires.
 
#26 ·
We'll see let me tell ya your car it's only got 43,000 miles on it. You need to get my car it has 215,000 miles on it see it's broke in. Gets real good mileage i'll do you a favor we'll swap cars and you give me an extra let's say 1000 on the trade. And I'll let you keep the new RE 92's for free and that O2 sensor that I think so much of. You'll love the mileage. If this goes through I love Blowen smoke early in the morning !!! But seriously folks don't know where you're from but it's nice to have a 42,000 mile car way to go !
 
#27 ·
Long ago.

Back in the mid 1970's, I had a Cadillac Seville with a huge engine. Gas was about $.35 a gallon. The Caddy had a new feature. There were two lights on the dash, one red and one green. Simple enough, it was indicating engine vacuum, just like the green bar indicator in the Insight. Even though gas was dirt cheap, (by today's standards), I got used to keeping the green light on most of the time by subconsciously keeping the green light on most of the time, even by very gently acceleration.

I have been driving the Insight for about three weeks and I already use all the gauges subconsciously. Never in low range. Accelerate slowly and modulate to charge/motor assist gauge in the green, and keep the vacuum gauge above 50.

I looked at the plugs, they look like they could be original or dealer replaced. They are NGK indexed and those are impossible to find except through Honda or Honda specialty suppliers. They are clean and don't look worn or burned and are a light tan color. I did mark them though and when I reinstalled, they didn't seem to line up with the exhaust valve.

I can't say that it would be worth it to spend over $200 for an new EGR valve. Have to give that some thought.

I did discover that there is no lower engine cover. As best I can find out, it comes in three pieces, and front, a right rear and a left rear. I have none. I read that I should see a huge improvement if I find and install those.

Like I said, I have Dunlop Enasave tires in 165/65-145. I think the pressure is in the mid 30's. I will try running them up to close to the tire max and put about 42 in the front and 40 in the rear and see what that does.

I don't think it would be cost effective for me to replace the coils with new $300 a set NGK's. Would it do any good to replace them with Chinese made one at $75 a set?

Is one 0w20 oil better than another for gas mileage?

When I first got the insight I took it to Green Tech and they ran codes and checked it out and said there were no codes. They said the battery system was functioning correctly. Don't know if they can tell if the battery is sub par or not though.

I am driving in North Texas around Dallas. I do a 60 mile round trip each week on the interstate. I drive about 68 to 72 most all the way. I want cruise control. Will that help or hinder the mileage?

It has been pretty cold for the last week, and I will be interested to see if the mileage changes when the weather warms up.

All for now, Mick
 
#31 ·
I looked at the plugs, they look like they could be original or dealer replaced. They are NGK indexed and those are impossible to find except through Honda or Honda specialty suppliers. They are clean and don't look worn or burned and are a light tan color. I did mark them though and when I reinstalled, they didn't seem to line up with the exhaust valve.

If they are the correct index they should be aligned OK. The first tune up for an Insight is at 105000 miles. What is your car's mileage?

Like I said, I have Dunlop Enasave tires in 165/65-145. I think the pressure is in the mid 30's. I will try running them up to close to the tire max and put about 42 in the front and 40 in the rear and see what that does.

I don't think it would be cost effective for me to replace the coils with new $300 a set NGK's. Would it do any good to replace them with Chinese made one at $75 a set?

Good idea to use higher tire pressure. 30 is way to low for an Insight.

The car will present a DTC if the engine is misfiring. No use throwing parts at the car hoping something good may occur.


Is one 0w20 oil better than another for gas mileage?

Probably not if it's really 0-20 from a reputable manufacturer. I'm using Mobil 1 synthetic 0-20 wt.

If someone else changes it check the oil afterward. The dealer the original owner of my car used for oil/filter changes was putting 4 and FIVE qts of oil in the car at every oil change!! An Insight only needs 2.6 qts with an oil-filter change. The car had 4 qts in it when I drove it home after buying it. I checked the oil and at first couldn't find the dipstick "full" hole because the oil was over an inch above the hole!


I am driving in North Texas around Dallas. I do a 60 mile round trip each week on the interstate. I drive about 68 to 72 most all the way. I want cruise control. Will that help or hinder the mileage?

Not knowing what transmission you have ........ with the MT car you are driving it almost too fast to get into lean burn at 68 mph and most likely won't get into lean burn at 72 mph unless you are going downhill. If you have a CVT forget about lean burn.

With either transmission, slow down to 64 mph and see what happens. At ~2800 rpm the engine opens the other 3 intake valves which is done normally to give you more power. You want more mpg not power.

If you are driving in hilly country I would guess cruse control will waste gas going uphill and might slow you down too much going down hill.

The idea is to have enough speed to go up the hill as far as you can while staying in lean burn. Then let the car speed up on it's own downhill (getting great mpg) to make it over the next hill in lean burn. An 1/8" change in throttle position can make a tremendous change in mpg.

At a steady 64 mph on a 56 mile flat S. Fla road my MT car got 78 mpg on a ~125 mile out and back drive including some in urban traffic driving. And part of that was with the A/C running on the return leg. At 30 mph in my town I usually get 90 to 120 mpg in 3rd gear (depending on all sort of external variables).


It has been pretty cold for the last week, and I will be interested to see if the mileage changes when the weather warms up.

All for now, Mick
Your 60 mile run is great to compare different variables about your car. Try driving at 64 mph before a semi passes you and see what happens. I jammed my foot against the tunnel so I wouldn't change the throttle setting. I was getting 85 mpg with a friend with me (that accounts for the "low" mpg :) ) and as I got into the draft alongside the truck my speed went up to 72 mph and I was cruising along at 120 mpg in lean burn! Of course the wind buffeting was not something I'd want to put up with for a long time but it was interesting to see the changes that happened.

Please put some info about your car so we don't have to guess when answering your questions.
 
#28 ·
Charge/Assist

BTW, my charge gauge moves around a lot and I cannot always figure out when it is charging. I try to maximize the charge/assist gauge by letting off to make it show green, but I cannot tell if it changes the charge level. Is it charging even if the charge/assist gauge shows neither? Sometimes I may not look at the gauges for a bit and suddenly the charge level is maxed. Then I let off the gas and even though I am going say 65 and decelerating, the green on the charge/assist gauge does not illuminate. Does that mean that it is maxed and the system is stopping the charging?
 
#40 ·
BTW, my charge gauge moves around a lot and I cannot always figure out when it is charging. I try to maximize the charge/assist gauge by letting off to make it show green, but I cannot tell if it changes the charge level. Is it charging even if the charge/assist gauge shows neither?

The car can also do what we call "background charging". That doesn't show on the charge (green) bars. The OBDIIc&c device that Peter Perkins, one of the forum experts, sells can be set to show all charging on the 8/16 data point screen. It's a very good investment if you plan on keeping your Insight and want to learn and/or do your own maintenance.

Sometimes I may not look at the gauges for a bit and suddenly the charge level is maxed. Then I let off the gas and even though I am going say 65 and decelerating, the green on the charge/assist gauge does not illuminate. Does that mean that it is maxed and the system is stopping the charging?
Yes, the ECU controls the charging of IMA battery pack and attempts to keep it charged between 20 and 80%.

If the car has a weak battery you will sometimes see the SOC display suddenly drop to a few bars and the car feels sluggish while it does a "negative recalibration". That means the gas engine is also charging the IMA battery in the background which the charge gage doesn't display.

The SOC display will slowly rise to about ~1/2 scale and seem to stick there for awhile and suddenly jump to the top.

The car is telling you to get a grid charger and give it some battery maintenance. You can buy ready to use chargers from several form member's companies or even build your own for under $100.

Even new IMA batteries ought to be "grid charged" after about a year of use. This helps to keep the individual cells of the battery pack "balanced" so they all perform better. It's like a chain, one bad link messes up the chain.

See my website for details.
 
#29 ·
Please put your Location in your Profile, as ALL G1 Insighters have done.
Thank You.
Willie
 
#34 · (Edited)
+1

@mr.ridout It is possible to test the EGR valve to tell if it has a damaged potentiometer. Google "EGR tester site:insightcentral.net" to find my posts on the tester I built in which I have plotted what the ECU sees when it is looking at a damaged EGR valve. These valves are designed poorly and used in such a way that they wear out in the small area where they are used.

To test it yourself without building an automated tester, the general idea is to take the valve out and apply 10 volts to hold it open, then push it closed with your finger while measuring the potentiometer with an ohmmeter that has an old school analog meter (about $10 at Wal-Mart). While letting it open up (very slowly) the needle should change smoothly. If the needle jumps then goes back down, the valve is bad because the potentiometer substrate is worn. It may also be bad if the internals are worn and if this causes it to bind while opening and closing. I am working out a test for this last issue because this car is my hobby. But most people are going to want to pay $35 to see if it works, and if not, they have a spare valve for when it does die, or to swap with someone for another part.

Also, the valve lash is an easy adjustment. It too made a noticeable mileage improvement and made the car run a little more smoothly.

You may find that neither of these make a difference for you. But they can be knocked off the list in an afternoon and a few beers, and if found bad, can make a substantial improvement.
 
#32 ·
In one of my posts I indicated the info about the car, but I haven't figured out how to connect the info to my profile.

for now, suffice it to say that about a month ago I bought this 2006 Honda Insight with CVT. It had 150,000 miles on it. I drive it almost exclusively in north east Texas. It has Dunlop 165/65-14 Enasave tires on it. If there is something else I need to indicate, then let me know.

Mick
 
#39 ·
With a CVT about the best mpg you can expect is 75-80 mpg from what I've read other CVTers get. That's about what the MT Insights get when not in lean burn. But even the slightest downgrade will up your mpg quite a bit.

There's one long road near me that looks to be level but I always get a little more mpg when heading East on it rather than West. After awhile you will recognize which sections of road are high or low mpg areas.

The Japanese CVT cars do have lean burn and several people have bought the Japanese ECUs and modified the wiring of their CVT car to have lean burn. I don't recall reading what mpg they are getting though.

I found out a long time ago with a sick VW that you don't have to be that close behind squarish SUVs or trucks to get some advantage of drafting. Even 200 feet back gives some affect. If there is a cross wind you might have to move to the downward wind lane. Look at the high grass or trees on the side of the road to see what the breeze is doing.

Even stranger is once in awhile after you fill the car up with gas & you will get tremendous mpg. Twice now I was getting somewhere over 150 mpg at 40 mph for the 7 miles to drive home.

My theory is that the gas station gas fume recycling attachment on the gas filler nozzle isn't working (or you just overfilled the tank too much) and the fumes (and maybe some raw gas if you overfill) in the tank are forced into the emissions canister. When you leave the station those fumes/gas are drawn into the intake system and the ECU leans out the mixture because the fumes aren't accounted for to set the mixture the car wants to see. And with lean burn that can change your mpg from [say] 90 mpg to 150++.

The first time that happened I thought my dash had gone crazy. I reset the "segment" odometer and the mpg went right back to 150++. Unfortunately when I turned into my street and accelerated a little to get to my house the mpg for the 0.6 mile was 'only' 146 mpg. :( I took a picture of the dash for the record.

These cars aren't just transportation. They can be an entertainment device if you go with the flow and pay attention to what it is doing. Like, "Darn, I only got 70 mpg on that shopping trip." :grin:
 
#33 ·
You can put your Insight info in your "signature."
You can also put your town or city in your Profile as others have done. You might be surprised that another Insighter lives in your town.
 
#35 ·
About that cruise...

Depending on the route you drive it can be a boon or a bane. In mine, on mostly level ground, it's almost as good at lean-burn as me. If it's hills of any steepness, it ain't so hot and kicks the car into assist too much.

I put a clutch switch (also called a calpod) in mine to turn off the charge and assist at highway speed. Makes the cruise *far* more useful.

At 65+ mph lean-burn is tough unless the traffic is fairly heavy and you can get into its wind. If you have headwinds, even slight ones, at higher speeds lean-burn is an exercise in frustration--even on flat or slightly downhill roads.
 
#37 ·
Looking forward to your results on 505 ECU. Just for fun could you test it with IMA battery switched out or bypassed . Just wondering if the programming is more related to assist and regenerative opportunities. In other words are the ECUs the same across the board when they're not controlling assist and regent.
 
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