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but everyone said we are nearing the end of IC efficiency?

there you have a 4 banger, 4 door sedan with 140 horses that is getting pretty close to the gen 1 insight. i mean i am all for being a car enthusiast but i also know that the tiny eco car won't sit on top forever, in comparison it already fails in a few ways versus a car like this.
 

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58 is still a long way from 70 but it's a lot closer than it used to be. A used insight is still arguably the best car value in the planet.
 

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but everyone said we are nearing the end of IC efficiency?
And they would be correct. New hybrids like the Ioniq are using much more efficient electric motor drives with Li-ion battery packs to propel themselves and take load off the ICE. There's just too much ICE energy wasted in internal friction, exhaust heat, heat lost in engine cooling, and just the basic operation of an ICE with its pistons that have to change directions totally many times per second. There's just not much more than can be done, and things that are being done (e.g., turbocharging) add cost and complexity and reduce reliability. Electric motors and battery packs are increasing in power while ICE's become smaller and less powerful thus using less fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The insight is not a 70 mpg car you need to compare apples to apples in the new EPA cycle the insight is 61mpg highway

The EPA changed the way it estimated fuel economy starting with the 2008 model year.[31] The revised fuel economy ratings for the 2000 Insight with manual shift 5-speed under the updated testing are 61 mpg?US (3.9 L/100 km; 73 mpg?imp) in highway driving, 49 mpg?US (4.8 L/100 km; 59 mpg?imp) city, and 53 mpg?US (4.4 L/100 km; 64 mpg?imp) combined city/highway.[5][32]
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So by the new epa standards this one has better or equal mpg to the manual transmission first gen insight. Notice the 58mpg is combined city and highway


Ioniq is rated at 58 miles per gallon in combined city and highway driving for its base version, called the Blue.
 

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what sam said, even on the best day the G1 stock isn't a 70mpg mixed highway and city car, it is actually rated at 53mpg mixed by the epa. but that figure is a little low, though they mix in every type of driving, which includes using the air conditioner which most of us sweat it out instead.

so technically it's a bigger car and gets better ratings than the G1 MPG wise.
 

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1.6 liter Atkinson cycle engine, DSG gearbox, 2nd gen Insight shape but more attention to aerodynamic details. All in a relatively light package.
The most efficient gas engine paired with the most efficient gearbox and shape.
Still it is just fractionally more efficient than the bigger and heavier 4th gen Prius.
 

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EPA numbers are nice, but let's see what it does in real life. Many of us know that a 58 MPG tank is nothing to brag about. I consider that sub-par. I've done better in a stock CVT. 70 MPG tanks aren't hard to do.

This sounds like a very good car, but I don't think it has us beat.

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)

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That steady speed MPG pretty strongly suggests the reason the first guy got 87 was because he was running the battery down for most of the drive.

90kmh is about 55MPH, and at that speed the ioniq was getting about 60MPG, while an Insight would be getting ~75, plus or minus 5. That being said, fuel efficiency has been creeping up, and it's probably only a matter of time before we have a new car with MPG as good as the Insight for average consumers (this car is pretty close), but for enthusiasts the Insight will still be king.

What I'd like to see is what kind of fuel economy the Insight would get in the same conditions when retrofitted with all the tech introduced since it was released: lithium, active grille shutters, replacing mirrors with cameras for aero, direct injection, etc.
 

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That steady speed MPG pretty strongly suggests the reason the first guy got 87 was because he was running the battery down for most of the drive.

90kmh is about 55MPH, and at that speed the ioniq was getting about 60MPG, while an Insight would be getting ~75, plus or minus 5. That being said, fuel efficiency has been creeping up, and it's probably only a matter of time before we have a new car with MPG as good as the Insight for average consumers (this car is pretty close), but for enthusiasts the Insight will still be king.

What I'd like to see is what kind of fuel economy the Insight would get in the same conditions when retrofitted with all the tech introduced since it was released: lithium, active grille shutters, replacing mirrors with cameras for aero, direct injection, etc.
considering it's a much smaller car with a smaller IC engine it's easy to imagine it could rather easily get 80+ mpg like many hypermilers with plenty of mods to their car.

i will say it is kind of cool to think that the honda not only was the first hybrid in the US but it has taken almost 20 years for others to even come close.

the main downside to the G1 is its size and the G2 isn't quite the most economical.

i almost wouldn't doubt some of these new hybrid ideas came from the enthusiasts, like the motorized grill blockers, i was waiting for a car company to take that idea and run with it.
 

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My EPA sticker from 2006 is 60/61.

My daily drive is 60miles round trip. 1/2 city, 1/2 highway.

My average commuting MPG is 60.3 MPG

My car's lifetime MPG (includes the original owner) is >68MPG. (My driving lowered it from his >70 MPG)
 
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