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Discussion Starter #1
While driving to work this morning I passed a Prius with "63 mpg" painted on its rear window (the tiny one). Is that for real? I drove the New Prius on I-95 and despite my best efforts, all I got out of it was 50. (versus 60 in a civic hybrid)

Maybe the guy does lot of city driving.
 

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Well, I'm sure it's possible with some extreme hyper-miling techniques. However, nobody who drives "normally" will get that mileage in a Prius.
 

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The Prius II (2004 & later) is capable of some very high mpg figures. I didn't use to believe it, until I tried one myself. Generally, a Prius owner who airs up the tires, slows down a bit, and just uses some basic monentum & common techniques, can average 60-72 mpg in combined city/hwy driving. With "extreme" hypermiler methods such as P&G and letting off the gas gently at 41 mph (to kind of shut everything down) , 90-100 mpg is possible. At our hybridfest event on July 22, 3 different Prius owners pegged it at 99.9 mpg over a 20 mile country road course. (on the same course, my Insight got over 150 mpg)
 

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We have both an Insight and a Prius II. On the same commute, the Prius gets just over 50 mpg while the Insight gets mid 60's. The thing I notice about the Prius is that at lower speeds, the mileage doesn't really increase as much as it does on the Insight. Sometimes, it's still getting 50-60 mpg at 30-35 mph. The Insight would be getting well over 100.
 

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I have a Prius 2 and managed 62mpg on the 230 miles from Irvington, VA to Wilmington, DE in mid June. I had the cruise engaged, and set the speed at the speed limit. No special techniques other than that. I drive my Insight to work 44 miles RT with about 75% on I-95 between Wilmington and Philly, and work hard to average close to 70mpg (oversize Nokian tires cost me some mpg but dramatically improve ride and handling). I enjoy my Insight, but the Prius is a nice ride that makes it easier than the Insight for the average driver to get pretty good mileage IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
rmnelson said:
I have a Prius 2 and managed 62mpg on the 230 miles from Irvington, VA to Wilmington, DE in mid June.
Wow.

Maybe I should be looking at a New Prius instead of an insight, to replace my gas guzzler. (Although used priuses don't come cheap.)
 

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ElectricTroy said:
... a Prius with "63 mpg" painted on its rear window ...
[end quote]

Don't have a big enough window on the "Silver Bullet" to post the MPG the little rascal is getting! :)

As for the Prius model, saw one on "silly vision" the other day which the owner claims is getting 100 MPG - but the owner has modified it significantly!

The vehicle is predominately an electric car now (as opposed to ICE powered unit) with the gasoline engine for the most part now acting as a charging unit. Too bad it's made of steel sheet and not aluminum like the Insight. The later will last a lot longer (body wise) than the Prius vehicles but like them has an equal or better potential to be converted to the same extent; i.e., main power/propulsion from an electric motor, with a very small MG set (diesel?) for on-board charging when parked or when on the road.

Fred
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Fred said:
Don't have a big enough window on the "Silver Bullet" to post the MPG the little rascal is getting! :) As for the Prius model, saw one on "silly vision" the other day which the owner claims is getting 100 MPG - but the owner has modified it significantly!
That's because he cheats. He's adding energy to the car (electrical), but failing to measure how much he put in..... that gives a pseudo-reading of 100 MPG, but is inaccurate. ----- If he included the gasoline-equivalent cost of the electricity he's adding to the car, he would get a more accurate 50 miles per gallon-equivalent.

As for your 'silver bullet', you have room. I pasted an "80 MPG!" sticker on the bottom rear window of my insight. :)
 

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kapps said:
We have both an Insight and a Prius II. On the same commute, the Prius gets just over 50 mpg while the Insight gets mid 60's.
Sounds like you are comparing a 5 speed Insight to a CVT Prius. Try comparing a CVT Insight to the Prius and you find the Prius, while bigger, gets the same or better mileage.
 

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My insight...

Now had my car for almost 2 months now...

I have averaged ~75mpg since I have had it... the last tank average is now down to ~71 after having some fun. The previous tank I had 88mpg average at one point.

I find the Insight is extremely easy to get 65-70 mpg even when driving quite briskly for the UK, I hit almost 3 figures in the last few days a couple of times using full throttle, hence my 71mpg tank... must slow down again and hyper-mile.

UK gallons is 4.54609188 Litres though, not 3.7854118 Liters.
i.e. 20% more fuel... I wondered why we paid $8.50 per gallon
 

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... Try comparing a CVT Insight to the Prius and you find the Prius, while bigger, gets the same or better mileage.
I suspect you're wrong on that one.

I've come close to 100 MPG a couple of times with the "Silver Bullet" and it's a CVT.

Sixty and seventy MPG is no longer unusual, now that I've finally begun to learn how to use the little car.

Fred :)
 

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Fred said:
I've come close to 100 MPG a couple of times with the "Silver Bullet" and it's a CVT.
Maybe going downhill. Close to 100mpg with an Insight CVT, yea right. Low to mid 70's maybe but not 100. Only a select few people in the 5 speed get 100 with the 5 speed, so it's just not possible with the CVT on anything other than going downhill.
 

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I've come close to 100 MPG a couple of times with the "Silver Bullet" and it's a CVT. ... Close to 100mpg with an Insight CVT, yea right. Low to mid 70's maybe but not 100. ... Only a select few people in the 5 speed get 100 ... so it's just not possible with the CVT on anything other than going downhill.
Some of it was downhill but by no means all of it. That "Only select few ... in the 5 speed get 100" is I suggest due to the fact that most are not using these little cars to their maximum potential; i.e., driving too fast, short trips, useless idle time with the engine running, etc.

If you haven't tried it, note that with these little cars there is a point when the MPG scale/reading, save for off, will go no lower and if you're going up hill and are there, experience has shown me that the less time you spend in that relatively high gas consumption rate (after all it's only a three cylinder engine) it's worth your while to get out of there as quickly as you can.

Once you become familiar with a given road (the up hill and down hill aspects of it, as well as the shoulder conditions - so you can pull over and let what I call the "fast runner" get by you) if you keep that high gas consumption in mind as just mentioned, it is reasonable to expect that you will achieve unusually good MPG readings, even with a CVT such as the "Silver Bullet." MPG readings in the low to mid-seventies are no longer so unusual. Sixty MPG is actually viewed as a disappointment.

If you doubt what you've read here, try it for yourself. If you have a CVT you can in fact come close to the MPG readings many of the five speed Insight owners are experiencing and if you are a 5-Speed Insight owner, expect significant increases in your MPG avereages. For you five speed Insight owners, a MPG reading in the seventies may prove to be a disapointing run.

Hope this helps :)

Fred
 

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Fred,

Were you talking about getting close to 100 "average" mpg's and not "instant" mpg's, in your CVT? I still don't believe an average 100mpg is possible in a CVT unless it's down hill or on very level roads.
 

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... Were you talking about getting close to 100 "average" mpg's and not "instant" mpg's, in your CVT? I still don't believe an average 100mpg is possible in a CVT unless it's down hill or on very level roads
.
For the run in question, just under twenty eight miles in length, for three different times now, I've had readings in excess of 97 MPG. The last run was 87 or so MPG - very disappointing. Still haven't figured out what I did wrong on that one. The run includes, level, up hill and down hill areas, some of which are significant.

On a different run, one to the North of me, one just under 25 miles or so, it is now unusual for me not to get to my destination with an MPG reading in the mid-seventies. The run includes very few flat and level areas and one somewhat lengthy downhill part..

Very recently PENNDOT resurfaced a seventeen mile streach of road near me. It's almost as smooth as glass. It's a relatively flat run. Now, rather than get MPG readings in the low to mid-sixties, I get MPG readings in the mid-to high sixties; i.e., good roads DO it seems, make a significant difference MPG wise.

The over all or life time average for the car is just under fifty five MPG and still climbing - those "short hops" i.e., runs which are less then ten or so miles just kill those higher MPG readings. I've had days when the MPG reading was as low as, if you can believe this, 9 MPG but it was only for a third of a mile run - I should have walked!

And speed has a good bit to do with it to. for the most part I and my passinger Humililty, stay in the right hand lane, running along at speeds between forty five to fifty five MPH as I concentrate more on MPG than MPH.

Can a CVT have an over all, a life time MPG reading of 100? As you say, only if it's all down hill but for a given run, if you are familiar with the road AND the car, your little Insight will all too readily exceed the advertised MPG which is about sixty or so I believe. Unless you live in San Francisco or the like, experience has shown me that for a CVT Insight, 70 MPG should - almost - be a common event and MPG readings of eighty and ninety should not be too rare either - if the owner/operator really concentrates on his/her handling of the little car.

Hope this helps :)

Fred
 

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Fred, I have been wondering about your mpg claims myself. My best round trip (I can get in to the 90’s coasting down the hill I live on so I only count round trip) has been 70.3 for 50 miles, running at 55 to 65 mph. Realistically the CVT has 3 strikes against it. No lean burn which is significant when trying the hypermile tricks. Next there is more friction in the belt than in a MT. Finally when stopped and not in idle stop the clutch is dragging a little to simulate the creep effect of an automatic transmission (CVT dose not have a torque converter). Despite this I am very happy with my CVT. I was able to get my CVT for less than I could get a MT Insight and I calculate that I will break even cost wise over my guess as to the life of the vehicle (mileage numbers are based on my being a commuter, not a hypermiler). In the mean time I find the CVT to be an amusing toy.

As to my mileage, I commute 48 miles each way, 18 highway and the rest on back roads. There are 15 stops and 9 right angle turns each way. I try to keep my speed between the limit and 5 under, I am trying to get somewhere so driving slow makes less sense to me. Most days I can get the round trip in the low 60’s and all but the first tank of gas has been over 60mpg. At roughly 4500 miles total my life time mpg is at 59.2. I’m not looking forward to the mpg hit this winter (I will run studded snow tires as I have done for the last 12 years, some of the roads I travel do not get plowed for several days and become covered with packed snow / ice).

Your comment about the road surface is right on. On the highway I can see the instantaneous mpg hover around 70~75 at 60 mph. on the back roads I get 65~70 mpg at 50~55 mph (I hate seeing the instantaneous mpg and the speedo fighting it out, you know 49 mph and 65mpg and you just cant get it any better).
 

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While I'm sure it's possible to get 63 MPG in a Prius, and 70+ MPG in a CVT Insight, I think I can safely make some assumptions:

1) Nobody will get consistent round-trip mileage like this unless they drive extremely slow (ie: 50 MPH on the freeway.) Oddball reports of extraordinary mileage doesn't count. It's the median or average over several tanks of gas that matters.

2) The Insight will consistently beat the Prius under similar highway driving condtions. I'm not sure about city driving.

3) I'll believe the statistics collected by another hybrid web site (whose name I won't mention). They have a database of mileage from 2700 cars. The median MPG of the CVT Insigth is 55 MPG. The Prius is 48. That sounds about right based on my own experiences in both cars.
 
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