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Discussion Starter #1
Living in Texas, I'm also a subscriber to the "TexasHybrid" forum.

In some of the recent posts, some member have mentioned that their cars (Prius) have been keyed. One of them got the "ELF" keyed onto their 2-weeks old Prius, probably in retaliation of the Hummer incident in California.

I won't say it's a trend, but it sure got me paranoid. If I hear anything on the news again about another ELF attack on SUVs, I'm gonna be real watchful of my Insight...
 

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Hi,

Sorry but i am no expert on the acronymes you are using. ELF stands for?

P.S. Maybe one or two lines on what was the California incident.
 
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Hi Yves:

___ELF stands for “Earth Liberation Front” and they have been sneaking around and burning or attempting to destroy mostly large SUV’s (Hummer’s usually) all over the country in the name of the environment. I have heard of attacks in Va., Tx, and Ca. but I am sure they are active all over the country.

___It makes me sad when this kind of thing happens here in the US. It shows some of our less then spectacular citizenry in action unfortunately.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:33eywst9][email protected][/email:33eywst9]
 

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I wonder how much CO2, hydrocarbons, and toxins, etc., are released by a burning Hummer.... :roll:

:wink:
 

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Well a car cover could certainly slow them down if your paranoid about it. I recall hearing about a bunch of hummers burner at a dealership here not too long ago.
 

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Each SUV burned means another SUV built to replace it and a little higher insurance premiums for everyone. Not only does a burning car create a ton of polution but it creates pollution to build the new one. IMO they are either confused anarchists or jealous that they can't afford to drive one.
 

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Hmmm...
I get a little paranoid sometimes, too, that someone might key my car because they think I'm some eco nazi.

I don't condone the ELF behavior, but I certainly understand it. Sometimes I get so angry at American over-consumption it makes me want to do destructive things, too.

Of course I don't do anything of the sort and I myself am guilty of such over-consumption (however - I like to think that my vegetarianism and choice of vehicle pretty much make up for my disposable latte cups and my shoe shopping sprees).

I think most people who fall in to the extremist activist groups are sorta like misguided cops - want to make a difference but use too much force and abuse of power - or they're like criminals with a mission - ignore social rules for the power of making a statment instead for profit.

Anyway, they're wrong. But much social theory would argue that they have a place and serve an important purpose in society.
Some could argue that people might buy fewer Hummers if they think they're the target of ELF people.

AND - just because you can afford to buy and maintain a Hummer does not mean youre really paying the price of one. Remember - our gas prices are basically subsidized. It's called an invasion.

Ok, but here's the thing that really pisses me off about Hummers. People who drive them are basically saying if I can afford my Hummer I should be able to drive it - no matter who I kill.

Hummers (and other large SUVs) are more likely to kill anyone they contact than any car. Parents have run over their own children with their SUVs because they have massive power with minor vision. Husbands have run over their wives. People die every day due to these monsters. I simply don't have a whole lot of simpathy for the owners of a few torched vehicles. (Again - not that I condone that behavior!)

People tell me I'm crazy or stupid to go hiking alone. I say it's a lot less dangerous than driving.

But the really sad thing is that we're such an apathetic bunch who just keep to themselves that just driving an Insight is radical or extremist.

ok, I'm off the soapbox
 

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Ok, I just have to step back on for a sec...

this quote is from http://www.suvhate.org/cgi-bin/page.pl? ... index.html

"If I walked around wearking a pink tutu and nothing else, most folks would probably say, "Hey, that guy is pretty stupid, what the f*** is he doing?" And, for better or for worse, I'd probably be pretty humiliated at my own choice of apparel. SUVs are very much like that. " ... "Of course, once the humiliation sets in, SUVs just won't be cool any more, and once every brand-new SUV becomes a useless sputtering death trap (ca. 2 to 5 years from purchase date), we just won't have as much work to do. "

hahahaha!
 

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Anti-Hybrid Paranoia

I think what we are all forgetting is our American way of life and the choice and freedom to choose what we purchase.I am not defending the suv's but if they are available and its your choice thats the American way! isn't it? Personnally I wouldn't have one and agree with most of what has been written but until they are legislated into the grave they will continue as some uncaring peoples choice.No doubt some users have a need for this type of vehicle, but the present craze that "everyone" should be seen in one is symptomatic of peoples need to belong, ie, to group together,to form a common bond,to purchase like vehicles,to purchase Insights,to contribute to the forum!
You see we all do it except for different reasons,our reason is on a higher level than thiers,we are trying to save the environment,the planet and that is more important than being part of the group,the club,the norm etc etc.
So lets extoll the virtues of Hybrid ownership ie the lack of fuel consumption,lowest emissions in a package that still performs to everyone you can and not get caught up in this brotherhood thing or we will be no better than the SUV bunch.

Dgate #151
 

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Re: Anti-Hybrid Paranoia

Dgate said:
I think what we are all forgetting is our American way of life and the choice and freedom to choose
I perfectly agree with you there!

Dgate said:
if they are available and its your choice thats the American way! isn't it?
Well, the problem is, that it is a choice that burdens others. If I buy an SUV, I can write it off on my taxes, getting all taxpayers to contribute to my purchase. I am more likely to kill oponents in an accident. I burn more fuel, which, as ecogrl pointed out is also subsidized. So I'm living out of other peoples pocketbooks, harming their health and endangering their lives at the same time.

I don't think that is the American Way!

If, however, I would pay the full price of the vehicle when I buy it, paid a fair price for gasoline, paid my share to everyones health and life insurance as well as environmental restructuring projects, it would level the playing field. It would still not be my choice, but at least now every car buyer could make an educated choice, seeing all the consequences.

What I'm trying to say is not to "outlaw" SUVs, just price them fairly. When gas goes up to $5/gallon, the entire SUV phenomenon disappears.
 

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I see nothing wrong with feeling a connection with other people who own hybrids. Just don't get carried away with it and shut other people out.

As for me, I'm enthusiastic about the hybrid movement, and always eager to explain the facts and benefits of hybrids to everyone who shows an interest. However, I never berate them for their own preferences (at least not to their faces!) :twisted:

For my own preference, I am not a fan of SUV's or minivans. As ecogrl stated, their cumbersome bulk can be a danger. I have found that to be true in my own experience. A few months ago, my aunt was hit by a careless SUV driver while standing on a sidewalk. The person obviously did not know how to drive something so large, miscalculated, and ran the back end of the vehicle onto the sidewalk while attempting to turn. My aunt was thrown several feet while the SUV sped away, oblivious to what had just occured. Perhaps SUV's are so huge that the drivers cannot feel it when their car hits something (or someone!)

Luckily, my aunt sustained nothing worse than bruises from the incident.

Luna
 

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Anti-Hybrid Paranoia

Armin writes:SUV buyers burden others with tax write offs (hummers?)


Well where doe's the kick-back on the Insight come from?and if honda didn't subsidise the insight how many would be prepared to buy at the real cost.In fact if legislation had not come into effect would there even be an Insight!! I think not.
If overconsumption is not the American way then why are we in this situation in just about all fronts,big portions of food,big vehicles,big houses,big everything,big is better didn't you know this?
No I believe they should be legislated out just the way we were told we would accept the safety equipment found standard on cars today and would never have originally accepted voluntarly.Just the way emission standards were created and engineering required to solve it.The car companies didn't want these burdens,the buyers didn't want the added complications or odd running problems in the beginning before it became fasionable.The buyers might dictate the market on some fronts but on others the government has to!
By the way here in the UK gas is $5 a gallon but it hasn't stopped the purchase of SUVs which are totally impractical in the tight parking spaces and narrow streets as well, so its strictly a fashion item and will remain so until the next one or the government steps in.

Dgate #151
 

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Freedom to choose in the U.S. is a myth you were all taught

If you live in the U.S, and you want to buy a Honda Fit in Japan and ship it to the U.S to drive on public roads, it can't be done. Ridiculous laws exist that prevent you from effectively doing so. Same if you want a VW Lupo and tons of other cars sold in other 1st world countries. The U.S government is preventing me from my desire to have a Honda Beat, which I'd love to import from Japan. That's not freedom to choose. Far from it!
 

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Re: Freedom to choose in the U.S. is a myth you were all tau

Mitch said:
If you live in the U.S, and you want to buy a Honda Fit in Japan and ship it to the U.S to drive on public roads, it can't be done. Ridiculous laws exist that prevent you from effectively doing so. Same if you want a VW Lupo and tons of other cars sold in other 1st world countries. The U.S government is preventing me from my desire to have a Honda Beat, which I'd love to import from Japan. That's not freedom to choose. Far from it!
Y'know, I've been wondering about why we can't import certain vehicles from other countries (like the Smart). The most obvious road block is the differences amoung the emissions standards. What else is there, that would disqualify other vehicles?
 

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"...jealous that they can't afford to drive one."

Hey, speak for yourself :) I could afford a Hummer - I choose not to drive one because I have better taste! And also because I don't need to compensate for a case of micropenis, or any other insecurities.

And isn't that why most people buy big vehicles? Insecurity of one sort or another. If you want to change what people drive, work on that.
 
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Hi James:

___Take is easy on the descriptions as to why people drive what they do … Not everybody likes the look of our Insight’s, the Civic Hybrid, or the 2 Prius’ either.

___As for the [email protected]$*&^, my wife drives the MDX and the last I checked, she didn’t have that problem :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2nldgxhz][email protected][/email:2nldgxhz]
 

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Hi Rai Ka

Thanks for the heads up.

Hate is self perpetuating. It has a tendency to form a positive feedback loop. ELF is trying to get free publicity for their political position, and demonstrate the depth of their emotion. Unfortunately there are some (anti-ELF) folks are just as, or even more hot headed and short sighted than they are.

I found a website: http://www.earthliberationfront.com/main.shtml
It has a place for feedback. They should hear about counterproductive effects of their actions. After all, I think most of us (Insighters) are sympathetic to their basic premise. It will not serve them well to alienate sympathetic souls. I will drop them a line. I encourage any of the rest of you to do so also. It probably will not have any effect. But it certainly can be no worse than resorting to vandalism and profanity.
 

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ELF follow up

Being the shadowy anarchists that they are, their “feedback” link takes you to a choice of “anonymous” e-mail sites. (I could only get the “Riot anonymous” to work). Quite a trip.
 

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"Not everybody likes the look of our Insight’s, the Civic Hybrid, or the 2 Prius’ either."

It's not a "look" thing, or even a status thing, really, as there are plenty of pricy little two-seaters out there. I may be half-joking about the micropenis link, but I'm 100% serious about the broader idea: if you look at why people buy SUVs, by far the most common reasons all come down to some form of insecurity.
 
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Hi James:

___That means ~ 50% of the population of automobile buyers in the US have some kind of insecurity issue … Don’t even pretend to make that assumption as ridiculous as that. I know hundreds of SUV owners and not one has purchased their SUV’s because of a problem of any kind! I am now not joking about the micro***** link now either. It is uncalled for at the very least and at worst; you don’t really want to stand behind an argument as foolish as that.

___Not to pile on but our MDX has many more usable attributes then our Insight, old and new Prius, and the HCH as to make the SUV a very attractive automobile to use as a daily driver … If the MDX received the high mileage of any of the above, I wouldn’t own the Insight given the sacrifices in owning and driving one in many respects … all except for the Insight’s extremely excellent mileage anyway.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2f8hy1ea][email protected][/email:2f8hy1ea]
 
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