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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Or tell me how to use it. Odd that their website doesn't even mention this model anymore let alone show a manual for it. This came with the 2001 I bought in December and although it runs great, it might be time to run some cycles with it.

90402
 

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Looks to me like a simple manual charger / discharger, such as one can build using @olrowdy01’s instructions.

I summarized the 3-stage deep cycle process recommended many places on IC and documented my experience here...


Hope this helps!

- Park
 

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Is hybridautomotive.com the same company started by one time insightcentral.net user @jeff652 ? If so, he used to be a regular on this site. Not sure where he has gone.
 

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^ Yes, one and the same. He hasn't posted in almost 2 years. I assume he is out of Insights.

I'm not sure how his company is structured any more. He still has a internet site to market his current "Prolong" cycling equipment.

I think I'd sent a PM to Eli at Bumblebee. I know he is a dealer/installer:unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This car in question has the best battery of any Insight I've had in years. No IMA or check engine light after 6 months. Don't want to blindly use this charger and maybe mess it up. Ideally I would use my Genesis One charger which does it all automatically. Looking at the hybrid automotive site under the current grid charger instructions, it says the first phase of charging is ‘filling’ the battery. Once the battery becomes ‘full’ the balancing process will begin. The battery is already full, so how long should I leave it on for the balancing process? If I leave it on too long can the battery be over charged and damaged?
 

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The conventional advice has been to stop charging when the battery voltage no longer rises. You need a decent, two decimal meter, to detect when this happens. Even though the car thinks the battery is full, voltage will still rise some with a 350mA grid charger.

Remember that Peter has remarked that early after market sticks won't tolerate even low current grid charging. Look through the fan and check the color. If yellow or orange, then probably Honda, which can be grid charged :unsure:
 

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...Remember that Peter has remarked that early after market sticks won't tolerate even low current grid charging. Look through the fan and check the color. If yellow or orange, then probably Honda, which can be grid charged.
Good advice. We probably tend to overlook that, but now, given what Peter's finding, we should probably try to remember to make people confirm what vintage packs they have before saying 'grid charge it'...
 

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I don't see a car harness. Do you have one?

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well yes, I know how to do that. For how long? Can I leave it on all night? At what voltage should I stop?
 

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The amount of time is impossible to predict. It depends on the existing battery balance. If the battery is well balanced and full already, the battery voltage could stabilize in 3 hours. If it is badly balanced, it could take 30-36 hours, probably less if starting from full.

You should stop grid charging when the battery voltage no longer rises. In my experience, good batteries can stabilize at 165V give or take a bit. Poor batteries might stabilize in the high 170s. The difference is due to the average internal resistance of the 120 cells, which no one ever knows until they grid charge.

Of course, current battery capacity influences charge time also.

Bottom line, you aren't going to know balance time or balance voltage until you grid charge.:)
 
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What Jime said - watch for the voltage to peak and level out the first time instead of charging step A below.

Then this, roughly...

(Pulled from a post by SKeith, quoted in the post I referenced earlier)...

If your power supply is 350mA, you charge for 10,400/350 = 29.7 hr at the start of each phase.

Each discharge phase length will change on each cycle. Try to check it at least once per hour. If it's bed time, and it's over 120V, install the 25W and let it run overnight. Take what you get.

A) Grid charge for 10,400mAh input
  • Discharge to 144V w/2X 150W wattage bulbs IN SERIES (goes pretty quick)
  • Discharge to 120V w/75W bulbs IN SERIES (takes awhile)
  • Discharge to 96V w/25W bulbs IN SERIES (takes a long time)
B) Grid charge for 10,400mAh input
  • Discharge to 144V w/2X 150W wattage bulbs IN SERIES (takes longer)
  • Discharge to 120V w/75W bulbs IN SERIES (notably quicker than 1st time)
  • Discharge to 60V w/25W bulbs IN SERIES (notably quicker than 1st time)
  • Overall takes less time than cycle A
C) Grid charge for 10,400mAh input
  • Discharge to 144V w/2X 150W wattage bulbs IN SERIES
  • Discharge to 120V w/75W bulbs IN SERIES
  • Discharge to 60V w/25W bulbs IN SERIES
  • Like cycle B but less pronounced a jump than what was experienced between cycles A and B. Overall will take a little less time than B.
D) Grid charge for 10,400mAh input

If you can monitor the discharge current and record time, voltage, current periodically, you can calculate the capacity of your pack. If you do this, make sure you record 144V, 132V and 120V readings.

Discharge time changes between cycles because you're "moving" the capacity you discharged at lower currents/voltages to higher currents/voltages.
Variation - you only have a single bulb discharger. Don’t worry. Whatever bulb you use, it’ll just take longer on the discharge. And if it burns out, the discharge process will be interrupted until you replace it. Again, no worries - just watch for the final discharge target voltage.

Charging - I do it Jime & OlRowdy01’s way, where I watch for the voltage to peak and level off for 2-3 hours. But it ends up being close to the calculated 24-30 hours. The peak voltage also varies noticeably with temperature - higher when it’s colder. My battery usually peaks in the 170s.

Unlike HR’s new chargers this does NOT look like a set & forget automatic charger. You’ll probably have to monitor the process.

Older batteries tend to be very tolerant of variation. You’ll find folks who recommend running it right down to zero with a lightbulb attached overnight. Peter’s warning about overcharging new batteries is outside my experience, but I’d choose to be cautious and cut it off more quickly in the high end unless you know you’ve got the more durable old-style cells.

- Park
 

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have this one....add a second lightbulb for easier drain...start with 2 100-120V bulbs hook up a voltmeter (or guess) at about 110 V change to 2 60V bulbs....at about 60-80v screw in 2 40w bulbs tll voltage drops 2 zero....hook up charger and charge for min 12hrs or longer voltage should get to min 167V and maybe even 170V...done...repeat process if battery was in poor condition or first time ever...then do this all again once or twice a year min
 

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Tiers:
I apologize if I seem to be over critical of your post but you have some errors in terminology and procedure. I'm sure you meant 60 watt bulbs not 60 volt bulbs. 167v to 170v is not a full charge on these batteries. The consensuses of opinion is that the main balancing affect takes place above 170 volts. We would like to hit 174 volts under ideal conditions (25° C)

I recommend two light 120v bulbs in series because a single bulb may blow out if you start a discharge at 174 volts. Using lower wattage bulbs after the voltage has gone down will result in a much lower discharge current. (See my multi wattage bulbs vs discharge current chart shown on my website.)
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You really need at least a 4 digit DVM to be able to read 1/10s of a volt while doing a grid charge for 24-35 hours to reach 174 volts.

When the battery voltage while charging is about 170 volts the voltage rise will be 0.2 to 0.4 of a VOLT per HOUR. The battery voltage finally depends more on the battery-ambient temperature than the actual state of the charge. (That's what 120 cells in series can do.)

I try to time the start of charge so the final voltage is reached around 9AM while the cabin temperature is still somewhat cool ("cool" in S. Fla is 85° F). ;)

I have a [too] long article on my website that gives a lot of info about my DIY V2 grid charger, how to do a grid charge/discharge and rejuvenation. Click on the CRX note below this post to get to my website.
 

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olrowdy01
I apologize if I seem to be over critical of your post but you have some errors in terminology....like my mistyping don't you mean W not volts?
quote
" I'm sure you meant 60 watt bulbs not 60 volt bulbs. 167v to 170v is not a full charge on these batteries. The consensuses of opinion is that the main balancing affect takes place above 170 volts. We would like to hit 174 volts under ideal conditions (25° C)

I recommend two light 120v bulbs in series "

As to reaching 174V you are correct would be ideal however my 20 year old battery has only made it up to 170V one time so thats why I mentioned the 167V ...I agree try to get to 170-174...and charge for a longer time then I mentioned would also be better if time allows ...my bad there...
Regardless my battery is going strong after I started using this charger this way...
Cheers
 
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