[Curious Dave]

I'm in the process of rebuilding the engine in my 2003 CVT Insight and I noticed that the name YAMADA is cast into the timing chain case cover. I also visited the Yamada web site and noticed that Honda Motor Company is affiliated with Yamada corporation. Does anyone know if the Insight engines are actually built by Yamada Corp.?

 

[ikhoudvanu199]

do you mean yamaHa?

 

[Insightful Trekker]

do you mean yamaHa?

No he dosen't.

 

[joecvt]

Curious Dave: Are you replacing the pistons?...

The reason why I'm asking is:

After comparing part numbers between the manual model and the CVT. I determined that the only part that creates the difference in the compression ratio between the two models is the piston. I also found out that the oversized piston is the same part number on both models. So you would end up with the same compression ratio as the manual version (if it had the pistons replaced).

You may have a more powerful engine when you are done.

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner

 

[Curious Dave]

Well I just typed a long reply and accidentally closed my browser while looking for the URL to the Yamada web site. :? Here's a page from the Yamada site that has a list of their major customers, including Honda Motor Company. http://www.yamada.co.jp/en/corporate/customers.html

My engine has been having a problem with a piston slap like noise on #2 cylinder that started at approx. 28,000 miles and has slowly gotten worse to the point that you could hear the noise at idle and at full operating temp.. My car now has only 37,000 miles on it and is out of warranty, so I decided to bite the bullet and do an engine overhaul to see what is up with #2 cylinder. Cylinders 1 & 3 were still bone quiet. Dropping the engine out was a bit of a chore. The engine & the IMA assy. have to come out as one piece and there's not much room to allow for seperating the IMA housing from the CVT, but I did it. I now have the engine completely torn down with the next step being to thoroughly clean and inspect all of the parts. The pistons and rods are downright tiny and make the guts of a lawnmower engine look large in comparison. :lol: The piston skirts (what skirt there is) appear to have what looks like a molybdenum coating and you can easily see where the coating is put to the test instead of a skirt. I've been taking lots of pics as I go along and will post a link to them soon. Nothing real obvious just yet as to what was making #2 cylinder so sloppy compared to the others. I'll keep everyone posted with what I find out.

 

[b1shmu63]

Should have called yourself Brave Dave. I think you are doing some groundbreaking work here. Anyone else who has torn down an engine will likely concur.

Keep us updated. As the fleet ages you will likely have company. Others have noted piston slap, but it sounds like you will be the first to do an in depth report.

 

[LoNOx 1]

How did you determine it was #2 cylinder?

Have you checked the piston od with a micrometer?

Have you checked the cylinder to see how true it is?

It's hard to believe at that few of miles that it was worn much.

What kind of oil did you use?

What weight?

What kind of filter?

What was the oil change frequency?

Sorry for all the questions, but inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Curious Dave]

Everything was properly maintained on schedule. I haven't found anything out of the ordinary so far, but I am inspecting each and every part with a very close eye. I will keep everyone updated with my findings.

 

[ElectricTroy]

The piston skirts (what skirt there is) appear to have what looks like a molybdenum coating and you can easily see where the coating is put to the test instead of a skirt.

You mean the Moly coating is wearing thin?

 

[Curious Dave]

You can visibly see where the piston skirts contact the cylinder bore. The coating isn't really worn, just sort of polished in the areas where the skirt contacts the bore. There is virtually no wear on all 3 pistons and all 3 measure exactly the same with a micrometer. My next step is to check all 3 cylinders for roundness, taper, alignment, etc. with a precision bore gauge and a few other instruments. More updates to follow soon.

 

[coolcat]

Interesting stuff, I look forward to your updates on this project.

Did you check your valves before disassembly? I'm wondering if valve noise could have been mistaken for piston slap. I'm not trying to insinuate anything about your mechanical competence, you certainly sound like you know what you're doing, but I have seen crazier things happen before.

 

[Curious Dave]

I have the cylinder head completely disassembled for cleaning and inspection as well as the block. The rocker shaft and the aluminum rocker arms are the only parts that I've found thus far that show signs of premature or what I would consider abnormal wear, but the sound that I was hearing was definitely piston slap or a loose wrist pin on #2 cylinder. You have to remember that the valvetrain rotates at 1/2 crankshaft speed which makes isolating valvetrain noise much easier. I mentioned that all 3 pistons measured exactly the same, which they do, but there is one particular measurement that I made on all 3 pistons that doesn't quite add up and remains a bit of a mystery. The skirts all measure fine at 90 deg. to the wrist pin, but when I measure approx. 45 deg. to either side of center of the skirt, I get two different readings. The piston skirts have, shall I say, small wings that extend toward the wrist pin at the bottom of the skirts. When I measure diagonally across the wrist pin from wing to wing, I get a different reading when I swap sides, which doesn't make any logical sense. 8) I plan to measure all 3 cylinders tomorrow with a brand new precision bore gauge to see if anything appears out of the ordinary in that area. My local machine shop wanted $45.00 just to check the cylinders, so I decided to spend some money on a new set of precision ball gauges and and a new bore gauge to check the valve guides and the cylinders myself. I like to take my time and check everything very closely when it comes to rebuilding engines and machinery. I'm very picky in that regard, but that's just me.

I'm just about ready to upload some pics. of my work and post a link to them in a new post titled "Pics of my engine rebuild". I've been quite busy with work lately, but I should have the pics. up in the next couple of days and will hopefully have solved the mystery by then.

 

[Lee]

OK, I’m a little late to the party but…

Does anyone know if the Insight engines are actually built by Yamada Corp.?

Yamada and Honda are part of a Keiretsu. They have a business relationship that involves mutual part ownership and management swapping. Honda usally dose the core of the engine manufacturing in house (block casting, machining assembly etc). Small non core, non critical parts are often out sourced.

do you mean yamaHa?

Not a chance. Yamaha dose not have any relationship to Honda other than being an arch rival. Yamaha recently became a subsidiary of Toyota, so now they can be rivals in the auto, power sports and power equipment industries (and soon to be in the aviation world also).

 

[Curious Dave]

Well, after much close inspection of my cylinder block, I found #2 cylinder to be the source of my piston slap. Please see my post titled "The Source of my Engine Piston Slap" in the Problems and Troubleshooting section for more detailed info. on this wonderful dilemma.

 

[theaveng]

Yamada and Honda are part of a Keiretsu. They have a business relationship that involves mutual part ownership and management swapping. Honda usally dose the core of the engine manufacturing in house (block casting, machining assembly etc). Small non core, non critical parts are often out sourced.

Fascinating. I thought Honda built the whole car. Guess not.