[cvtonly1]

Ok,
Autostop is a great invention!!! It allows for the engine to turn off, thus conserving fuel. My question for all those vetrans out there who have older Insights is how do you get auto-stop to activate in stop and go traffic. I do know that i can get the auto-stop feature to activate when i am decreasing my speed from 13mph. Since i live in the So. Cal. ,is there any way to activate the auto-stop function from 6mph or less? I live in San Diego and travel up to the Orange County area freqeuntly. I sometimes get stopped at the border checkpoint and end up creeping along in traffic up to the N I-5 checkpoint and cannot get autostop to kick-in because of the slow speeds. I would like to conserve as much fuel as possible. Is there a trick to fooling the computer to think that auto-stop should kick in? Any help would be appreciated! :roll:

 

[Rick]

There are a couple of ways that help. One is if your creeping along a lot when you go to shift to neutral shift in to second before you to go neutral. Dont let the clutch out, just shift to second then neutral and let off the clutch. This method worked quite well when I was waiting in line to get in to a national drag race event here in phoenix a couple of months ago. I counted like 28 auto stops while waiting to get in, it was just creep and stop for a couple hundred yards. You have to shift to second kind of quickly for this to work though.

Now, the other trick if your just sitting there and not in auto stop after starting and stopping a few times is to stall the car in second. The car will restart when you shift in to first, but second is the only gear that will allow the car to stall in and restart via the gear shifter. Be careful though, this will kill the DC/DC converter so if your sitting there for a long time it will kill your 12 volt. And also if you have your head lights on or something when you restart it and it turns the DC/DC back on it will throw a voltage surge in to everything, probably not the greatest thing.

It gets better, if all other circumstances are right for auto stop and you've just beek creeping along a lot and it just decides to not shut off you can with some practice trick the car in to an auto stop with some quick foot arm cordination. the trick is you have to stall the car in second and as quickly as possible you have to get the clutch back to the floor and the shifter to neutral. This takes some practice and sometimes the car just won't do it, but eventually you should be able to get the car to give you the green auto stop light. If you do it right the engine will attempt to stay spinning at a low rpm, but the computer will tell it to stop so you'll get a slight surge in rpm briefly then it will auto stop. It doesn't work all the time, sometimes you'll get a battery light and an auto stop light, meaning the DC/DC cut out yet the car still thinks it's in auto stop.

I've been playing with this method and can sometimes replicate it and other times not. Some times I get mad at the car and just stall it and watch the oil and battery light come on, thats normal. Just make sure you have a decently good 12 volt battery.

One word of caution. Do not do this if your engine is not shutting off becuase it is not up to temperature yet. Cold starting and stopping an engine is hard on it. My 2002 will not auto stop until it has at least 4 bars showing on the temp gague, sometimes 6. I went in a ride in a 2001 with a non replaced ECU and geez, that thing auto stopped cold. It would be interesting to see if those have any long term problems, possibly with the valves.

Hope this helps. Start with experimenting with shifting to 2nd before neutral.

 

[Insighter]

Rick...

Look at his name--he's a CVT owner.

 

[Rick]

Ohh my bad .
Well if any of you out there have 5 speeds theres all you need to know about force auto stopping.

 

[Insighter]

Doh!

what about those of us with CVT's? I have the same question. Are we left behind to languish in the high 40's?

 

[Rick]

Well there is always neutral and the key to turn off.

Ok I'm being a smart ***, I'll stop now.

 

[rob]

Sorry for keeping up the conversation on 5spds, but just had to share this...

I've managed to make autostop happen when sitting still on occassion. The reasoning is, if the car is normally coming to a stop, then it is not uncommon to downshift before coming to a complete stop. I know the autostop function depends on speed, but something gave me the notion that it might also depend on shifting order. So one day, after reaching my parking space, with the engine still running in neutral for some strange reason, I decided to shift to 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd, and then 2nd, and nuetral again (all while pressing the clutch pedal)... and behold autostop kicked in. I was able to repeat this several times, but not often enough to ensure my confidence in this technique, because usually the autostop just kicks in before I even reach my parking spot. Anyway, that's my theory.

 

[boogetyboogety]

AutoStop Anytime, Anywhere

Actually, Rick is right for CVTs, the electronic stuff and the fuel delivery stuff and the battery stuff and for that matter, the alignment of the planets will not be affected in any way if you just shut the engine off in neutral with the key. At the appropriate time, when the traffic finally scoots forward ten feet, reach over and fire up the engine via the key, drop it in D, and move it on up. We've only done this three or four times, but it keeps the mileage up and harms nothing. If a "smart ***" :wink: further retorts with fears of depleting the little battery doing this mambo, I would have to imagine the traffic would have to be very awful for a long long LONG time to have this occur, in which case I would have abandoned forward progress anyhow and found myself a nearby saloon and a beer with my name on it...

 

[Tim Maddux]

The reasoning is, if the car is normally coming to a stop, then it is not uncommon to downshift before coming to a complete stop.

I never downshift before coming to a complete stop. Downshifting while braking usually results in a loss of regen in the lower gears. So I will regen brake in whatever gear I'm in until I get down to 1000RPM, and then shift into neutral. At this point I'm usually travelling slower than 20mph and the car will go into idle-stop immediately. More important IMO is that the car will not idle-stop if the car detects "stop-and-go" conditions... which means you need to get it out of first gear. Lots more detail here:

http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclope ... estop.html

I also apologize for more 5spd tips. The rest should be helpful to CVT owners:

Often if the car is refusing to idle-stop it is because car wants to maintain master brake cylinder pressure. In this case I would urge against killing the ignition.

But not because of 12-v battery being drained. Quite the opposite, in fact, people on the Yahoo! forums have had their 12-v batteries die prematurely, which prevented them from starting their car at all. John Wayland suggested that it was caused by the 12-v battery being maintained at such a high charge level for so long by the IMA and DC-DC converter and it would do the 12-v battery some good to get discharged occasionally. I don't think you're likely to see the 12-v wear out in this kind of stop-and-go traffic. You'd have to be stuck for hours. If the traffic is that bad, you might as well admit that you're parked and get out of the car and start walking

 

[Will M]

I've often found that if I'm sitting still in neutral with the engine running, I can fully depress the clutch and release it and the engine stops. I don't have to shift into any gear.

It doesn't always happen, but I usually figure the computer thinks the autostop shouldn't be working then because the engine is too hot or too cold or the battery is too low, etc.

Similarly, if I put it in gear and the engine either stalls or doesn't restart, I can depress the clutch fully while in first gear and the engine restarts. I think the clutch is the key more than the shifter.

As for CVTs, just turn off the ignition if you think the engine should be off. The 12-volt battery is backed up by the DC-DC converter linked to the 144-volt battery. Running out of 12-volt power is not a problem in this car.

 

[Hambone]

The owner's manual notes that for auto-stop to work the speed must be under 20mph and other things must happen (engine up to temp, a/c off or in econ mode, foot on brake, etc.). Well, there are loopholes. The auto-stop may only activate at speeds 20mph and under, but once in auto-stop mode, if you're say coasting downhill, you can actually build up to a speed above 20mph and stay in auto-stop, as long as you can keep a smidgen of force on the brake pedal. I've managed to get up to like 28mph in auto-stop mode before I took my foot off the brake and the gas engine relit.

I've also found similar engine temp needs for auto-stop to work as someone had stated earlier, but I've also noticed that the outside air temperature affects this. When its cold outside, I need six bars to have any hope of engaging auto-stop mode. If its cool, I need 4 to six. But when outside temps are in the 70's or above, I will have use of auto-stop with only 2 bars of temp showing. There must be variable thresholds for auto-stop to engage based on a variety of factors, which is pretty cool. It allows us to have fun getting the car to operate as we desire no matter what the conditions are.

 

[Armin]

it may be a different temperature

When its cold outside, I need six bars to have any hope of engaging auto-stop mode. If its cool, I need 4 to six. But when outside temps are in the 70's or above, I will have use of auto-stop with only 2 bars of temp showing. There must be variable thresholds for auto-stop to engage based on a variety of factors, which is pretty cool. It allows us to have fun getting the car to operate as we desire no matter what the conditions are.

I think whatever controls Auto-Stop is likely looking at an entirely different temperature sensor. In warm weather, that sensor appears to heat up much quicker than the coolant temperature. In cold weather it's the opposite. I also noticed that the hot-air intake modification helps idle-stop to come on earlier and so does the electric engine-block preheater.

From that, I would guess that the coolant temperature sensor is located further away from the actual combustion process than the sensor responsible for idle-stop. Looks like maybe the temperature regulator has to open for the coolant sensor to get hot water.

 

[Insighter]

Auto stop...

I have noticed that sometimes my CVT auto stops about 10 to 15 seconds after I stop (or, more precisely, 10 to 15 seconds after I brake below 7 mph), instead of right away.

I've noticed this most often when I am in stop and go traffic. I stop, the engine auto stops. I release the brake to move forward a few feet and the engine starts again. I stop again, the engine doesn't auto stop. Then about 10 to 15 seconds later, while I'm still stopped, the engine auto stops.

What's happening?

Thanks for any info!

 

[Tim Maddux]

As for CVTs, just turn off the ignition if you think the engine should be off. The 12-volt battery is backed up by the DC-DC converter linked to the 144-volt battery. Running out of 12-volt power is not a problem in this car.

Yes, it can be. If the ignition is turned off, the DC-DC converter is no longer electrically connected to the 12-v battery. You can confirm this by turning the car off, then turning the ignition back to ON (but not to START). You should see the battery warning light inside the tachometer light up to indicate that it is not getting a charge from the DC-DC converter.

While most battery death reports I've read indicate that the 12-v battery dies from being charged up too much for too long, rather than getting drained. But you can still drain your battery in the classic fashion of leaving the headlights on overnight, and a dead 12-v battery will prevent your Insight from starting even if the IMA system is fully charged and functional.

Hambone, you can also keep your foot on the clutch and release the brake pedal completely to maintain idle-stop.

 

[Insighter]

...

It is not a good idea to completely drain the starter/light/ignition battery in any car. Doing so permanently reduces the battery's capacity and life. If you don't believe this, just search for information on the net and you'll see.

 

[nnielsen]

autostop

if open the hood and looked in front of the a/c condensor (if so equipped) and behind the grill, right in the middle of the car you will see a sensor with one wire attached to it. this is the autostop temp sensor and in cold weather (i don't remember what temp i read in the manual) it will not allow autostop to work. also, this sensor does not come attached from the factory, the dealer is supposed to do it. if you have a problem with autostop you may want to see if the wire is attached to the sensor.

 

[Armin]

Re: autostop

if open the hood and looked in front of the a/c condensor (if so equipped) and behind the grill, right in the middle of the car you will see a sensor with one wire attached to it. this is the autostop temp sensor

Well, yes, it's one of them. This one will prevent autostop in extreme cold. Don't know the exact threshold, but it must be below -10C

What I was referring to is the one that disables autostop when the engine is still cold after a cold start. Anyone have the electrical manual ready? How many temperature sensors do we have and where are they?

 

[Tim Maddux]

Re: ...

It is not a good idea to completely drain the starter/light/ignition battery in any car.

True; what Geoff Shepherd and John Wayland originally suggested (and I mentioned here perhaps unclearly) was to that the 12v battery needed exercise from time to time so as to prevent sudden inexplicable death of the battery after an unsuitably short period of time. If you go to the first couple hundred messages of the Yahoo honda-hybrid forum and look for the "dead at roadside" thread you'll see what I am referring to.

So, occasionally force it to discharge some current, but not so much as to totally drain the 12v battery.

 

[Tim Maddux]

Re: autostop

Well, yes, it's one of them. This one will prevent autostop in extreme cold. Don't know the exact threshold, but it must be below -10C

40F or 5C, according to this, which describes a hack (disabling climate control) to make idle-stop still function at those external temps:
http://www.insightcentral.net/KB/faq-un ... erIdleStop

40F is also the "winter driving?" threshold for the mileage database.

Unfortunately that doesn't answer your question about how warm the engine needs to be to idle-stop.

 

[jcollum]

Re: autostop

(i don't remember what temp i read in the manual)

if memory serves it's 41 degrees F