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Discussion Starter #1
I am a new Insight owner - not a new Insight, just a new owner. I'm sure I'll be posting lots of questions as I figure out what they are..

For now: From what I understand from the manual the Auto Stop should kick in when I come to a stop as long as the A/C if off, or in ECON mode and if the battery is sufficiently charged. So this means that I should be able to run the heater and the fan as long as the A/C is not on and Auto Stop should kick in. But it doesn't. Turning the fan off seems to make a dfference, but even that aside it seems random when it kicks in. Thoughts?

Thanks.

Oh, the car: 2000 with 52,300 miles. Silver.
 

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The Insight won't go into auto stop mode if the outside temperature is below some threshold. I looked through the forum and didn't find a number. From my experience it seems to be somewhere between 35 and 40 degrees. Above that it will go into auto stop mode, below that it won't even if the car is completely warmed up.

If you are running the heater I'd guess the outside temperature may be too low for the Insight to go into auto stop mode. If it is 50 or 60 degrees (F) and it still won't go into auto stop, that's a different issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Definitely not cold around here. I live in coastal Santa Cruz, CA. Today the temps are about 65 degrees with night time temperatures around 45 at the coldest. Mostly I use the fan for air and use the heater for the defroster (defogger really). So, the temperature doesn't explain it. My first encounter with the local Honda dealer techs did not inspire confindence. I hope there is a solution short of going to them.
 

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If you have the climate control on "Auto" then the auto stop will not work. If it's a 5 spd, then as long as you are not in 1st gear, the auto stop should work. Putting the car into 1st gear is what starts the engine. Also the engine must be warmed up, and the battery too. While coming to a stop, with clutch in, and foot on brake, the auto stop should engage at 19mph and below. Read all the FAQ's on the front page to see all the tricks about the insight.
 

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First just turn off the heater completely ("off") and see if autostop works.

Also note that the temperature control works even if the heater is off, so if it's a "reasonable" temperature outside you can leave it off and put the temp control to a suitable place. You won't get much air that way, but the air you get is at least at the temperature you want...
 

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The autostop logic seems to have at least three ranges. If it's really cold (below freezing) then it doesn't seem to come on at all. In moderate temperatures, it won't come on if the heater is on at all (even if it's set low). In this range, if you hit the big "Off" button before coming to a stop, then the A/S comes on.

Engine coolant temperature is also factored into the logic. A/S doesn't seem to come on until it reaches 140 F or so - more than 2 bars lit on the dash gauge.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Replying to each of you:

dice: I read the FAQs well before I posted my original post. Taking all of those things into consideration and paying attention to it all A/S is doesn't work as it seems it should.

Dougie: A/S does work if I turn the heater completely off.
Thanks for the info re heater working even without the fan. The bummer about this is not only the heater but the fan in general and the ECON air. I don't have much need here for major air conditioning (it doesn't get that hot here) but air circulation in would be really nice. And it seems like I should be able to run on ECON or with just the fan and the A/S should work.

james: thanks for the info about the logic of the auto stop. I would say we are having moderate temperatures. It's not just the heater that's the issue, it's fan, as I've said. I have tried hitting the big "Off" button before coming to a stop and the A/S does not come on. However, if I leave it off the A/S will come on the next time I come to a stop. Regarding engine coolant temp - the A/S problem is a problem even when the car is completely warmed up and has been running for awhile.


Very mysterious.
 

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I assume you know that if the front defrost button is pressed then the A/C is on and autostop is disabled?

The Insight's heating and ventilation system is by far the most incomprehensible I've ever seen. For example: Pressing OFF doesn't really completely reset the system, because it still remembers if you had the fan set to some particular speed. If you want to reset the system, you have to press OFF, then AUTO, then OFF.

However, this shouldn't have anything to do with the autostop feature. I think you're saying that if you press OFF, AUTO, OFF, ECON, ECON, and set the temp to 68, then the autostop still doesn't work even after the car is warmed up?
 

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The one thing that will cause an auto stop gremlin, if it doesn't have anything to do with climate control use, is the ambient temperature sensor. It mounts to the front grill in front of the radiator, and I've seen the flimsy little clip break on multiple Insight's, including mine. Have it laying there bumping against a hot radiator long enough and it's bound to eventually fall off.

Pop the hood, look straight down in front of the radiator and there should be a little cylindrical object with 2 wires coming out of it. If it's not there that's your problem, or if it is there make sure the connector is securely plugged in. The part that clips in to the connector can also often break (This could be an AZ heat thing, but the clip itself is tiny). Of course the proper fix is to replace it at about $60, but some super glue would probably work wonders as well.

Since it works sometimes this may not be the problem, but a loose connection would cause intermittent operation and it's a fairly common issue.

There's actually a way to get the climate control to display any fault codes, one of which would be if it doesn't detect the ambient temperature sensor. PM me your email address and I'll send you a print screen of how to do it and what the resulting codes mean.

If it's not that try turning the climate control completely off before you slow down to 19mph. If that does the trick then the climate control is keeping the engine on.
 

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Eva, is your car a manual? If so make sure that you've got your foot right down on the clutch - you need to be right down in the last bit of clutch travel before the car goes in or out of autostop. If this is tricky make sure the floor mat isn't pushed under the clutch pedal.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Auto stop

Okay - I've paying attention to everything A/S. The deal is that A/S does not come on EVER unless EVERYTHING is off. According to the manual A/S should work with the hearter and ECON; it should come on at 19mph, but it comes on more like 4mph - IF everything is off. The batteries and engine are warmed up, the outside temps are moderate.

So, it seems to me that there is a problem - mechanical or electrical. I don't know who in my area is going to be able to fix this. (A/S is one of the most important features in this car for me.) The Honda dealer in the town is pretty bad - I haven't heard much good about them from anyone. I seriously doubt they know much about this car.

Does anyone have any suggestions given all that I've said and all that everyone has suggested already? Is A/S simply broken!?
 

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Have you tried checking the ambient temperature sensor attached to the inside of the front bumper as Rick suggested earlier. It has been known to cause a problem with auto stop in the past. By you turning the whole system off, the controller probably does not check the output of the sensor anymore until it turned back on again. If the sensor is disconnected (or not present), it may be faking the controller into a setting that it is too cold outside causing auto stop not to function.

I was typing my reply and Insightful Trekker beat me to the submission. I must be a slow typer :oops:

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yes, I did check for the ambient temperature sensor. It's there and apprears to be intact...


joecvt said:
Have you tried checking the ambient temperature sensor attached to the inside of the front bumper as Rick suggested earlier. It has been known to cause a problem with auto stop in the past. By you turning the whole system off, the controller probably does not check the output of the sensor anymore until it turned back on again. If the sensor is disconnected (or not present), it may be faking the controller into a setting that it is too cold outside causing auto stop not to function.

I was typing my reply and Insightful Trekker beat me to the submission. I must be a slow typer :oops:

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner.
 

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Try unplugging the outside temp sensor and inspect the terminals for corrosion. Good electrical contact is a prerequsite for function and this connector hangs out in the worst weather. ;)

Ok, so your Insight is a 5 speed or an automatic (CVT) :?:
(makes a difference, see Ed's reply above) If you can get A/S at 4MPH then its mostly working (the BIG pieces are anyways ;) ). Sounds like one of several logic input switch potential problems. A/S logic dosen't "see" all of the _required_ switch values to enable A/S. One switch _may_ be closing intermittantly and late.

Check _ALL_ fuses for correct installation and condition. Also checking the climate control for error codes would be a good and easy preliminary diagnostic step. You can retrieve the value of the outside air temperature sensor too. Its not a precision instrument but it should be within 4-5 deg F. IIRC ABS has some interaction with A/S too.

Your repair technician needs to make a logic chart defining all the inputs required for a successful A/S. Then begin to sift throught the electrical system (the Honda ETM is just about a requirement for this type of troubleshooting) testing each input for function and reliability. The testing is basic. The understanding of how to apply and interpret the results is not.

And oh, if there is / has been a crusie control installed and if its splice connection to the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor / and or an internal cruise control unit failure) this signal is also used for speed input and can mess-up A/S.

Sorry but hands on is the next step. And its gonna take an electrically skilled technician with the necessairy manuals.

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks. I'll looking for a technician who has some experience with Insights. BTW, it's a 5 speed. No cruise control.


Insightful Trekker said:
Try unplugging the outside temp sensor and inspect the terminals for corrosion. Good electrical contact is a prerequsite for function and this connector hangs out in the worst weather. ;)

Ok, so your Insight is a 5 speed or an automatic (CVT) :?:
(makes a difference, see Ed's reply above) If you can get A/S at 4MPH then its mostly working (the BIG pieces are anyways ;) ). Sounds like one of several logic input switch potential problems. A/S logic dosen't "see" all of the _required_ switch values to enable A/S. One switch _may_ be closing intermittantly and late.

Check _ALL_ fuses for correct installation and condition. Also checking the climate control for error codes would be a good and easy preliminary diagnostic step. You can retrieve the value of the outside air temperature sensor too. Its not a precision instrument but it should be within 4-5 deg F. IIRC ABS has some interaction with A/S too.

Your repair technician needs to make a logic chart defining all the inputs required for a successful A/S. Then begin to sift throught the electrical system (the Honda ETM is just about a requirement for this type of troubleshooting) testing each input for function and reliability. The testing is basic. The understanding of how to apply and interpret the results is not.

And oh, if there is / has been a crusie control installed and if its splice connection to the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor / and or an internal cruise control unit failure) this signal is also used for speed input and can mess-up A/S.

Sorry but hands on is the next step. And its gonna take an electrically skilled technician with the necessairy manuals.

HTH! :)
 

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Autostop is pretty sensitive to having the brake pedal depressed. If you coast to a stop sign and let off the brake pedal while you're still rolling, then the computer thinks you might just be slowing down, and starts the engine again. Try keeping the brake pedal depressed until you come to a complete stop.

There is a switch that detects "brake pedal depressed," and if it's adjusted correctly, then you can press the pedal just a little bit so that the switch notices it, but so that the brakes aren't actually on.
 
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