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Discussion Starter #1
At the risk of sounding defensive, I have to establish right up front that I've been driving for more than 35 years and for most of that time it's been in manual shift cars. Point being: it's not an unfamiliar process for me.

That said, this Insight we recently picked up is making me look like a rookie! Every other manual I've driven has (apparently) been very forgiving of pulling the transmission out of a gear more or less simultaneously with depressing the clutch. But when I do that with the Insight, I get all kinds of embarrassing sounds of gear teeth grinding. I can avoid this only if I shift in a very purposeful Step 1/Step 2/Etc. way....depress the clutch (fully), pull transmission out of gear, pause ever-so-briefly in neutral on the way to next gear, shift to next gear, engage clutch. It's almost the way you'd shift a big rig truck!

Note that the sounds don't come from going to the *next* gear....it comes from being just a little hasty to get out of the gear I'm in. Does this ring any bells with anyone? BTW, there are not quite 30K miles on this car...hard to believe that synchros would be worn. Is it just something with this tranny?
 

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Would probably be bad news if its in the tranny or clutch. Given your experience and that the Insight isn't that much different in shifting it reads like somethings wrong. :(

Had the MTF recently changed :?: Its still sometimes mistakenly replaced with an 80W gear oil that will cause rapid damage. In all Hondas that's a no-no. They requires a 30 or 40 weight engine type oil. Honda MTF has special additives that the racers confirm gives the best _subtle_ shifting feel. I've used 10w-30 Mobile 1 myself in all my Honda MT's without a problem. Gone in excess of 200K miles in two of them with it too. ;)

But there is an _ooold_ Honda "bulletin" on the topic of using synthetics in MT's and possible gear clash resulting from the oil being too slippery. The synchro's won't correctly grab the gear set to bring it up to speed.

Reads like your first low cost step is to change the MT oil with Honda MTF. And the sooner the better.

HTH! :)
 

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i agree with john, change the fluid with honda MT fluid. it doesnt take much, so even at 4 or 5 bux a quart its cheap. dont know if that will help, but it couldnt hurt ;)

it does seem odd that it makes noise coming OUT of a gear though. clutch could be out of adjustment, or worn linkage inside the tranny. quite odd, indeed!
 

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Looks like I read the post too fast too. :|

But you did use the word "grind" rather than pop on shift release.

Could be more related to the clutch. Remember its hydraulic and you should have minimal free play at the top of the pedal's travel else you won't (or barely will have) full release with _both_ feet stomping the pedal at the bottom.

Maybe air in the hydraulics :?: But by time and miles unusually soon for such a failure. And you should have a similar problem on up shifting with such a failure too.

Hmmm... maybe the old left knee needs some attention after all. :p

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
>> "it does seem odd that it makes noise coming OUT of a gear though. clutch could be out of adjustment, or worn linkage inside the tranny. quite odd, indeed!" <<


Insightful Trekker said:
But you did use the word "grind" rather than pop on shift release.

Could be more related to the clutch. Remember its hydraulic and you should have minimal free play at the top of the pedal's travel else you won't (or barely will have) full release with _both_ feet stomping the pedal at the bottom.

HTH! :)
Yeah...the actual noise being made is that of gear teeth grinding. I haven't gone way out of my way to make this situation happen any more than it already does (as a result of a lapse in concentration now that I've adopted a more, um, pedestrian pace in shifting), so the best I can do is say that it sounds (and feels) like only the last inch of clutch travel is disengaging the drive...consequently, a shift started any earlier in the clutch pedal depression has been started before sufficient disengagement.

Thanks for the replies, guys...I'll be off to get the MT fluid changed next week!
 

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Interestingly enough, this doesn't happen to me. However, I do sometimes get a little bit of "gear crunch" when I shift too quickly from 1st to 2nd. I have to ease into it to avoid the slight grinding noise. Interestingly enough, this is also the same problem I have in the S2000.... but I've never experienced it in any other MT car I've driven.

Let us know if changing the fluid helps out! I'm hoping that it will do the trick for you. :)
 

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clutch

You might also check the classic "slipping floor mat".

Willie
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: clutch

Willie Williford said:
You might also check the classic "slipping floor mat".

Willie
This is unlikely, since the car doesn't have any (which is something else we want to get, to cover up the wear spot in the carpet).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
minako said:
Let us know if changing the fluid helps out! I'm hoping that it will do the trick for you. :)
Well, I had the transmission fluid changed today (along with having the rear brakes cleaned and adjusted). The service rep agreed with me (and you all!) that it made sense to make changing the fluid the first step in pursuing a solution. I mentioned the suggestion received here that it might have synth fluid in it. He felt that since the Insight tranny was so fussy and since it really required specific fluid (also mentioned here) that it was wise to change it.

I'm a little hesitant to put much into a first impression...and I'm aware of the tendency to project into a situation the results you want to see.

Still, it feels different...and better. In driving it back home, I tried to NOT be as purposeful in shifting as I had been (though I wasn't going out of my way to create the problem, since I don't want a case full of gear teeth) and the crunching was not happening. So, I'll be keeping tabs on it from here on out and see what I find.
 

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excellent! hope that does it for you. let us know how it goes.
 

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Keep in mind that the gears on the Insight are very tall and there is a big jump in ratios between gears (except 5th is only slightly taller then 4th).
It takes more time for the revs to drop before you can quickly release the clutch at the right time to be syncronized with the taller gear.
It's night and day shifting the Insight compared to a civic with an Integra Type R close ratio transmission.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Guillermo said:
Keep in mind that the gears on the Insight are very tall and there is a big jump in ratios between gears (except 5th is only slightly taller then 4th).
It takes more time for the revs to drop before you can quickly release the clutch at the right time to be syncronized with the taller gear.
It's night and day shifting the Insight compared to a civic with an Integra Type R close ratio transmission.
Right...but if I understand what you are saying...that shouldn't make any difference....should it? I mean, isn't that what the synchros are for? I not slamming this from one gear to the next. And the crunch wasnt' happening going *into* a gear (so waiting for revs to drop to go into the next gear could not be the concern). The grinding was coming when pulling *out* of the gear I was already in.
 

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It might be worn synchros but I don't have experience with that.
Is the clutch engagement point within spec?
The service manual specifies a range.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Guillermo said:
It might be worn synchros but I don't have experience with that.
Is the clutch engagement point within spec?
The service manual specifies a range.
Next time it goes in, I'm going to have them look at the clutch engagement point...because that's what I'm leaning toward right now as an explanation.

I'm not convinced that the change of transmission fluid had any effect (though it certainly didn't hurt)...and that it's far more likely that I am starting to accommodate the car. Nevertheless, I "graunched" it again just the other day. And, like you said, I'm beginning to wonder if it's not because there is less than complete disengagement until I get clear to the floor. In hindsight, I'm realizing that a lot of other cars I've owned must have had clutches that would disengage with only a portion of the clutch travel.
 
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