[meow77]

There's been so much written about the IMA etc.. but I have yet to see what I'm about to type.

I had my insight parked for quite some time and did not start it for quite some time either. 6-8 months something like that. Obviously when I tried to start it recently it wouldn't start at all battery was dead ima was dead etc..

So I decided to do first things first.
1. I recharged the battery in the engine bay; but still had some difficulties because the IMA was completely gone.

So I did this and saw some unusual behavior.

I kept the charger on the car battery started up the engine with the starting assist feature on the charger; then hammered the engine to get the charge for the IMA.

What I noticed next was unusual: the IMA charged up really really quickly I would say in a matter of 30 seconds..never seen it charge that quick before... probably less than that.

I thought that the charge might be a faulty reading. I kept the car stored and turned the engine on once a week to keep it charged.

Today I took it for a spin and the charge is legitimate. Full charge would discharge when I used assist and recharged just fine.

Why am I sharing all this.. .well I've heard so many horror stories here about the IMA and thought this might be the end of mine... but whatever I did seemed to help the system... I think what I did is basically took the charging function of the engine battery away from the IMA and it took full advantage of the engine charge.....

well there it is...

 

[retepsnikrep]

Not that unusual after all.

Meow77

I don't think your cars behaviour is that unusual given the circs.

The NIMH cells in the IMA pack have a fairly high self discharge rate so will have slowly depleted. At least you know they were all balanced at 0% SOC when you came back to it

The IMA pack will probably recover if cycled normally now, such a long layoff however is not really good for the car and it might throw up an IMA code. As the aux battery was flat as well, this situation looks to the car like an IMA reset procedure, with forced charging etc while the computer tries to sort out what's going on

Depending on how long the lead acid aux battery was flat for, that might have been damaged by sulphation of the plates. Pb batteries do not like being left dead/discharged except for very short periods. You may find that now has a low capacity or fails soon.

Peter

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Yup Peter :!:

Reads like a flat 12v causing an IMA reset. In this case the IMA batteries faired a bit better and their "recharge" time was very brief. Rapid IMA recharge behavior has been documented by other Insighters in here too.

Such a long down time is not good for any car. Over the long term its probably gonna prove to be even a bit worse for IMA batteries. The only countermeasure being a trickle charger for the 12v and a weekly start with a FULL warm-up. Should the SoC gauge fall to 1/2 or lower over the months I'd also add an IMA reset.

HTH!

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

The HV battery actually holds a charge quite well. I bought the Silver insight (Flood damage), nearly 8 months after it was totaled. I charged the totally flat 12 battery, and the thing started right up with the 12V starter. I had a voltmeter on the HV pack output, and saw 156V with the key on, and engine off. The SOC guage showed 0 bars, but within 1-2 minutes, it shot right up to full. What is happening is that the SOC info is lost when the 12V drops out, and the recharge continues until the total pack voltge under charge raises to a top value. At that point the SOC guage moves up to the full charge position and recalibrates the SOC columb counter.
I have seen this behavior on many Insights.
SOC system discription.
http://www.99mpg.com/resources/articles ... cksexpose/

 

[Edmond]

I have also noticed that my IMA battery seems to bleed and discharge quickly when parked for short periods of time. For example, if I park the car overnight with the battery gauge at full charge, it will register at 50% in the morning. Is this normal? Edmond

 

[Mike Dabrowski 2000]

Not Normal.

 

[meow77]

Well I'm not concerned at all about the car battery. It's pretty much new and I have a recharging unit that gives me the specs on the battery as its charging... the one thing I wonder about though is the charger I have is a sci fi charger with basically has two settins 2amp trickle and then a 10amp quick charge and then a super duper 30amp charge for batteries that can accomodate it... I usually go with the 2amp .... and that's what I did here. .. so the battery is fully charged no problems with the car battery....

I was for more concerned with the IMA system with it charging so quickly... I figured ... hmm... never seen that before but now that I've driven it around highway and all... its acting pretty much normal... the car doesn't have much mileage on it. Less than 60K KM that means.. 37,500 miles... not much.. However I think I'll be going with that plug in MIMA thing... to manage the battery better. I still don't like how easily the ima comes on in 2nd gear

 

[Insightful Trekker]

2A is about 1.5A too much for a "trickle" charger (connected weeks at a time and for an Insight sized battery). IMO there will be about as much long term 12v battery "damage" at this rate of long-term charging as no charging at all.

Otherwise 2A for 12-24 hrs once a month its about right.

HTH!

 

[Berk]

...my insight parked for quite some time and did not start it for quite some time either. 6-8 months...

Isn't there a timer available that can be programmed to start a stored car every so-often, for a specified time, to keep the engine & related accessories "limbered up", when in long term storage? Provisions would have to be made to safely clear all exhaust gases from the vicinity each time.
Thanks for all your help, Berk

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Never heard of such Berk.

There are remote starters. But such an automatic function has many potential safety and malfunction detection "issues". It would be a very complex mod / accessory.

 

[meow77]

Well this Monday; I'll be taking my car into the dealer for serveral reason.. one of them being the battery I'll have them run tests etc.. so we will see how it goes...

 

[Insightful Trekker]

..one of them being the battery I'll have them run tests etc.. so we will see how it goes...

There are no "tests" for the IMA battery. True, the Honda DCS _can_ retrieve some IMA battery voltage data. But given all the variables in IMA battery service life any conclusions at to what the values mean will by only a "guess".

 

[meow77]

I'll have them call Japan if it comes to that...

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Good Luck.

But the problem is partially a NiMH's chemistry and that its voltage is relatively flat vs. SoC.

_ALL_ rechargable batteries degrade with age & usage. If you sent your pack out to a lab for testing it wouldn't test "new". Just like other parts of your car. The warranty is _only_ for defects in material & workmanship. Not normal aging. Except in the case of IMA batteries. Honda has decided that normal aging shouldn't be a factor 'til beyond the warranty extension time and miles.

AFAIK the Canadian IMA battery warranty extension is still in effect. 10/150k miles (convert to Km here)

 

[meow77]

Well I took the car in and had several things I wanted them to look at before the warranty wore out... I found the letter Honda sent me somewhat misleading... when I took the car in they told me that unless the IMA light had gone off they would have to charge me just to hook up the car about 98 bucks just to check it... The informed me that they could check it but that if they didn't find codes: P1447 or P1449 that they would charge me. So I told them to take a hike.. I did get some free work out of them but for something different... but alas I won't know if my battery has those codes or not. I wonder if there is a way I can get it checked .... They told me if they found those codes they would replace the entire battery pack...

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Unless the RED IMA light has been on at some point in the past AND you've not lost 12v then the code(s) will be stored.

Also a _bad_ IMA battery can't heal itself, so even if the codes were lost it won't take too much driving time for them to recurr.

Not all IMA codes are battery failure codes so having them checked may still end up costing you.

HTH!

 

[meow77]

Is there a specail tool that honda uses to detect those codes? Or do most mechanic shops have the tool to check for the codes. I have a mechanic friend of mine who would check for free... I know Honda mentioned there's a place where they hook in the machine anyone know where it is? Or the tool needed to read those codes?

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Any "generic" code reader can read an OBDII code. However, it may not have the IMA _specific_ (or other manufacturer specific) code definitions "built-in".

IMA specific data via the data stream is only available via an HDS.

 

[boogetyboogety]

My ScanGageII correctly read both the P1447 and P1449 codes when my Insight suffered them

 

[meow77]

ok so where exactly do you hook this thing up to? Where on the car ?