Dear Insight Owners and Enthusiasts,
I've just spent several hours reading Forum posts on Insights on several different sites. Wow! I'm in information-overload and pretty bewildered at the moment. However, I sure want to express a BIG appreciation to all of you that take the time to offer such helpful info to folks like me.
I have a pretty long list of questions, as I'm beginning the process of buying a used Insight.
I've had an interest in EV's for many years...and even hope to possibly start a biz doing conversions, after talking to the guys at CalCars http://www.calcars.org and EDrive Systems, http://www.energycs.com/ and http://www.energycs.com/Edrive-FAQ.html who are converting Prius's (Priuii? ;-) to being a Plug-In Hybrid, and have had MUCH press coverage in some pretty big publications. This is going to be a BIG challenge for me, since I have NO background in electrical engineering, battery technology, software, or mechanics. ! ! ! AND I'm a woman....not your typical gear-head guy. (No offense to the *sophisticated* men that read and post on these forum sites) <tease/chuckles>. The only thing I can bring to this adventure is my passion for EV's...and my entreprenurial spirit. So some of my questions about buying an Insight, come from my conversations with them, and the reading I've done related to their projects. But because I have no background in any of this, I have a pretty limited understanding of alot of it.
So, to launch into my questions:
I'm interested in doing the conversion (or something similar...) to the Insight that the CalCars guys have done on their Prius. They have hacked Toyota's OEM software, changed out and added a few parts, and are using Lithium-Ion batteries. And making it a "plug-in" --rechargeable at your home electrical outlet. Has anyone done anything like this with the Insight? Can it be done? If so, I might be interested in buying an Insight with trashed or dead battery pack...and spending the bucks on the Lithiom-Ion's. ?? Here's a note I found somewhere??? tonight...that makes me wonder if these batteries would work in the Insight? Since I know nothing about battery technology and how it interfaces with the rest of the mechanics...I'm clueless as to whether ANY type of batteries can be used. I'm aware that some older EV's used Lead-Acid batteries. And that the Insight and Prius (I think?) have NiMH. But that' about all I know. Toshiba Corporation today announced a breakthrough in lithium-ion batteries that makes long recharge times a thing of the past. The company's new battery can recharge 80% of a battery's energy capacity in only one minute, approximately 60 times faster than the typical lithium-ion batteries in wide use today, and combines this fast recharge time with performance-boosting improvements in energy density...
Toshiba will bring the new rechargeable battery to commercial products in 2006. Initial applications will be in the automotive and industrial sectors, where the slim, small-sized battery will deliver large amounts of energy while requiring only a minute to recharge. For example, the battery's advantages in size, weight and safety highly suit it for a role as an alternative power source for hybrid electric vehicles.
I'm curious about what this person was meaning in response to my question last summer comparing Prius to Insight. He wrote (I think referring to the Prius,) <snipped>"...EV mode is GREAT, but the usefulness is killed by the fact that you can't grid charge the car." Does that mean that the Insight CAN BE "grid charged" ?
How long are the batteries supposed to last according to Honda? I think I've seen a few things that reference 8 years. ?? Is there also a *mileage* relationship? From what I've read in these posts tonight, it sounds like there are alot of different factors, including how the car is driven ?? that can affect this. (I saw --and copied-- the post on "How to buy a Used Insight") And from another post: "They indicated that - even though the battery is "fully" warranted for eight (count 'em: 8) years,..." Is that only for the original buyer?
Another post and question about batteries: "Especially since they don't make any effort to point out that those in mountainous areas are likely to wear out their IMA battery much faster than those in flat areas who don't need the assist nearly as much. I don't think extending the warranty is unreasonable given that the public has come to expect major drivetrain components to last at least 100K miles." MY question now: How much does it cost to replace the batteries? I live in Durango CO. Because I live in town, as compared to *out* in the mountains, I won't be doing LOTS of climbing...but some, occassionally, for sure. How have others fared that live in similar regions, with having this aspect affect their battery performance/life?
I'm looking at an '02 Insight...to buy. Any things --problems-- I should be aware of...for that production year?
I read about the "MIMA"? It sounds like this is similar to the software hacking that the CalCars & EDrive guys did to the Prius...or is it a totally different technological thing? If I wanted to do that to mine...how can one get it done?
Battery issues: I read quite a few posts where people have problems w/ their batteries...for example: "I really think I have some sort of battery issue, but am at a loss for how to adress it. And this one: "The 12 volt battery died yesterday." Is this type of thing common...or more rare? I live in Durango CO, where the is no Honda dealer. The closest one is an hour away, and I doubt they work on hybrids much, since I think they've only sold a few. So I have some concern about how often mysterious "battery issues" arise.
This note from the "How to Buy a Used Insight" post (I think?) "One thing I'd check out is the lifetime mpg (i.e. did they drive the car abusively?).
Since I live many hours from where I will probably buy my car...It seems this is something I'd like to ask the Dealer to tell me...before I plan a trip to drive 3 -14 hours to Albuquerque or San Diego or wherever I can find a Dealer that will take a trade-in on my boyfriend's gas-guzzling van, that we would be DRIVING to the place that has the Insight. (read --lotsa $$$ for gas on that trip, that I don't wanna waste...buy arriving to find out the Insight has a disappointing lifetime mpg). And how is that determined? Especially as to how it relates to "did they drive the car abusively?" Does the acronym "lmpg" that I've seen in many posts, refer to lifetime mpg?
Another question from a post that I don't think I saw a reply to: "Does the car require 91 octane fuel or is regular unleaded ok?"
I assume that is in the owner's manual? Or is there a standard answer to that question for all Insights?
RE: This post: "Learn the tricks of how the SoC and Charge indicators work in an urban test drive before you head out on your own is about the best advice I can give after you have read the linked thread above. Taking a somewhat experienced Insighter with you might make the purchase a little less like “Craps” and a bit more like a well thought out and educated decision." Excellent suggestion. However, in my case, there is very little chance of my being able to do that...unless one of you reading this happens to LIVE in the town where I end up buying my car, and would be willing --out of the kindness of your heart, or ....perhaps for pay-- to meet me at the dealership and check this out for/with me. In lieu of that, however, ... what's the next best thing I could do or look for here? Remember, I'm clueless.... I don't even know what the SoC is. I did a little looking around the Knowledge Base and Encyclopedia at InsightCentral.net...but was quicly overwhelmed by the amount of info there, that I don't understand. It appears to --mostly-- be written for mechanics or EE-types, as far as I can tell.
Again, I know nothing about battery technology....but when I read this (following )post about "recal" ...which I think may refer to "recalibration" ?? --which I have no idea what that means.... it made me wonder about some of the things I think I read about why the Lithium-Ion batteries are so good. Something about the deep cycle discharges (??) and may be why the CalCars guys are using those? "When you get a good feel as to the definition of a recal, post to this thread because I can tell many here including Honda IMA owners have never heard of it nor do they understand what it is and why one may occur. Relax until such time the degradation becomes so pronounced that you have drivability issues with it. HCH’s and even Prius’ could have one of these events although they would be hidden from the end user because there really is no good way to tell what the cap of a group of NiMH cells are worth at any given time no matter the algorithm used. Watching the actual pack voltage of a Prius II vs. the SoC meter cycling between 3 and 5 bars just this week over an extended period tells me no manufacture has a good handle on this issue just yet."
And finally, this post about EMF hazard of the Insight:
"That electromagnetic radiation hazard. Why isn't this on Art Bell - Coast to Coast? I'm sure this is a unique threat that eclipes radiation from computer monitors, TVs, and power tools" http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automoti ... sight.html
Now here's the deal with me on this: I have MCS or EI, (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity or Environmental Illness) For example: I can not walk into Home Depot without a respirator on ...or I get very sick; one reason I'm finally buying a cleaner-air car. When I read the Forum replies to this article...things like ..."If it's not one thing...it's another." or "something's gonna kill you eventually," ....I felt a little peaved by all the people don't have an understanding of some of the lesser-known health hazards out there and that pooh-pooh the more *subtle* energies or conditions ....thinking they are just wu-wu. Or psychosomatic. I know there have been MANY reliable studies showing the dangers of EMF's to the human physiology. Even if this one person referenced in the article, was a fraud .... After reading this article, I am still concerned about the level of EMF radiation that may be coming from some component of this car. Would it be the batteries? Or what? Does anyone else have this concern? It didn't sound like it from the replies. How can it be checked? Isn't there a fairly simple way to check the level of EMF for different devices?
And lastly, if you know anyone that's selling an Insight in my part of the world...pls pass on my contact info: [email protected]
If anyone actually got to the end of this long post, I SALUTE and applaud you. And would be even MORE thrilled if you are able/willing to write back with any replies to my questions. Thanks VERY MUCH again, and in advance, to those that share so much helpful info here.
Sincerely,
Katrina Davis
Durango CO
I've just spent several hours reading Forum posts on Insights on several different sites. Wow! I'm in information-overload and pretty bewildered at the moment. However, I sure want to express a BIG appreciation to all of you that take the time to offer such helpful info to folks like me.
I have a pretty long list of questions, as I'm beginning the process of buying a used Insight.
I've had an interest in EV's for many years...and even hope to possibly start a biz doing conversions, after talking to the guys at CalCars http://www.calcars.org and EDrive Systems, http://www.energycs.com/ and http://www.energycs.com/Edrive-FAQ.html who are converting Prius's (Priuii? ;-) to being a Plug-In Hybrid, and have had MUCH press coverage in some pretty big publications. This is going to be a BIG challenge for me, since I have NO background in electrical engineering, battery technology, software, or mechanics. ! ! ! AND I'm a woman....not your typical gear-head guy. (No offense to the *sophisticated* men that read and post on these forum sites) <tease/chuckles>. The only thing I can bring to this adventure is my passion for EV's...and my entreprenurial spirit. So some of my questions about buying an Insight, come from my conversations with them, and the reading I've done related to their projects. But because I have no background in any of this, I have a pretty limited understanding of alot of it.
So, to launch into my questions:
I'm interested in doing the conversion (or something similar...) to the Insight that the CalCars guys have done on their Prius. They have hacked Toyota's OEM software, changed out and added a few parts, and are using Lithium-Ion batteries. And making it a "plug-in" --rechargeable at your home electrical outlet. Has anyone done anything like this with the Insight? Can it be done? If so, I might be interested in buying an Insight with trashed or dead battery pack...and spending the bucks on the Lithiom-Ion's. ?? Here's a note I found somewhere??? tonight...that makes me wonder if these batteries would work in the Insight? Since I know nothing about battery technology and how it interfaces with the rest of the mechanics...I'm clueless as to whether ANY type of batteries can be used. I'm aware that some older EV's used Lead-Acid batteries. And that the Insight and Prius (I think?) have NiMH. But that' about all I know. Toshiba Corporation today announced a breakthrough in lithium-ion batteries that makes long recharge times a thing of the past. The company's new battery can recharge 80% of a battery's energy capacity in only one minute, approximately 60 times faster than the typical lithium-ion batteries in wide use today, and combines this fast recharge time with performance-boosting improvements in energy density...
Toshiba will bring the new rechargeable battery to commercial products in 2006. Initial applications will be in the automotive and industrial sectors, where the slim, small-sized battery will deliver large amounts of energy while requiring only a minute to recharge. For example, the battery's advantages in size, weight and safety highly suit it for a role as an alternative power source for hybrid electric vehicles.
I'm curious about what this person was meaning in response to my question last summer comparing Prius to Insight. He wrote (I think referring to the Prius,) <snipped>"...EV mode is GREAT, but the usefulness is killed by the fact that you can't grid charge the car." Does that mean that the Insight CAN BE "grid charged" ?
How long are the batteries supposed to last according to Honda? I think I've seen a few things that reference 8 years. ?? Is there also a *mileage* relationship? From what I've read in these posts tonight, it sounds like there are alot of different factors, including how the car is driven ?? that can affect this. (I saw --and copied-- the post on "How to buy a Used Insight") And from another post: "They indicated that - even though the battery is "fully" warranted for eight (count 'em: 8) years,..." Is that only for the original buyer?
Another post and question about batteries: "Especially since they don't make any effort to point out that those in mountainous areas are likely to wear out their IMA battery much faster than those in flat areas who don't need the assist nearly as much. I don't think extending the warranty is unreasonable given that the public has come to expect major drivetrain components to last at least 100K miles." MY question now: How much does it cost to replace the batteries? I live in Durango CO. Because I live in town, as compared to *out* in the mountains, I won't be doing LOTS of climbing...but some, occassionally, for sure. How have others fared that live in similar regions, with having this aspect affect their battery performance/life?
I'm looking at an '02 Insight...to buy. Any things --problems-- I should be aware of...for that production year?
I read about the "MIMA"? It sounds like this is similar to the software hacking that the CalCars & EDrive guys did to the Prius...or is it a totally different technological thing? If I wanted to do that to mine...how can one get it done?
Battery issues: I read quite a few posts where people have problems w/ their batteries...for example: "I really think I have some sort of battery issue, but am at a loss for how to adress it. And this one: "The 12 volt battery died yesterday." Is this type of thing common...or more rare? I live in Durango CO, where the is no Honda dealer. The closest one is an hour away, and I doubt they work on hybrids much, since I think they've only sold a few. So I have some concern about how often mysterious "battery issues" arise.
This note from the "How to Buy a Used Insight" post (I think?) "One thing I'd check out is the lifetime mpg (i.e. did they drive the car abusively?).
Since I live many hours from where I will probably buy my car...It seems this is something I'd like to ask the Dealer to tell me...before I plan a trip to drive 3 -14 hours to Albuquerque or San Diego or wherever I can find a Dealer that will take a trade-in on my boyfriend's gas-guzzling van, that we would be DRIVING to the place that has the Insight. (read --lotsa $$$ for gas on that trip, that I don't wanna waste...buy arriving to find out the Insight has a disappointing lifetime mpg). And how is that determined? Especially as to how it relates to "did they drive the car abusively?" Does the acronym "lmpg" that I've seen in many posts, refer to lifetime mpg?
Another question from a post that I don't think I saw a reply to: "Does the car require 91 octane fuel or is regular unleaded ok?"
I assume that is in the owner's manual? Or is there a standard answer to that question for all Insights?
RE: This post: "Learn the tricks of how the SoC and Charge indicators work in an urban test drive before you head out on your own is about the best advice I can give after you have read the linked thread above. Taking a somewhat experienced Insighter with you might make the purchase a little less like “Craps” and a bit more like a well thought out and educated decision." Excellent suggestion. However, in my case, there is very little chance of my being able to do that...unless one of you reading this happens to LIVE in the town where I end up buying my car, and would be willing --out of the kindness of your heart, or ....perhaps for pay-- to meet me at the dealership and check this out for/with me. In lieu of that, however, ... what's the next best thing I could do or look for here? Remember, I'm clueless.... I don't even know what the SoC is. I did a little looking around the Knowledge Base and Encyclopedia at InsightCentral.net...but was quicly overwhelmed by the amount of info there, that I don't understand. It appears to --mostly-- be written for mechanics or EE-types, as far as I can tell.
Again, I know nothing about battery technology....but when I read this (following )post about "recal" ...which I think may refer to "recalibration" ?? --which I have no idea what that means.... it made me wonder about some of the things I think I read about why the Lithium-Ion batteries are so good. Something about the deep cycle discharges (??) and may be why the CalCars guys are using those? "When you get a good feel as to the definition of a recal, post to this thread because I can tell many here including Honda IMA owners have never heard of it nor do they understand what it is and why one may occur. Relax until such time the degradation becomes so pronounced that you have drivability issues with it. HCH’s and even Prius’ could have one of these events although they would be hidden from the end user because there really is no good way to tell what the cap of a group of NiMH cells are worth at any given time no matter the algorithm used. Watching the actual pack voltage of a Prius II vs. the SoC meter cycling between 3 and 5 bars just this week over an extended period tells me no manufacture has a good handle on this issue just yet."
And finally, this post about EMF hazard of the Insight:
"That electromagnetic radiation hazard. Why isn't this on Art Bell - Coast to Coast? I'm sure this is a unique threat that eclipes radiation from computer monitors, TVs, and power tools" http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automoti ... sight.html
Now here's the deal with me on this: I have MCS or EI, (Multiple Chemical Sensitivity or Environmental Illness) For example: I can not walk into Home Depot without a respirator on ...or I get very sick; one reason I'm finally buying a cleaner-air car. When I read the Forum replies to this article...things like ..."If it's not one thing...it's another." or "something's gonna kill you eventually," ....I felt a little peaved by all the people don't have an understanding of some of the lesser-known health hazards out there and that pooh-pooh the more *subtle* energies or conditions ....thinking they are just wu-wu. Or psychosomatic. I know there have been MANY reliable studies showing the dangers of EMF's to the human physiology. Even if this one person referenced in the article, was a fraud .... After reading this article, I am still concerned about the level of EMF radiation that may be coming from some component of this car. Would it be the batteries? Or what? Does anyone else have this concern? It didn't sound like it from the replies. How can it be checked? Isn't there a fairly simple way to check the level of EMF for different devices?
And lastly, if you know anyone that's selling an Insight in my part of the world...pls pass on my contact info: [email protected]
If anyone actually got to the end of this long post, I SALUTE and applaud you. And would be even MORE thrilled if you are able/willing to write back with any replies to my questions. Thanks VERY MUCH again, and in advance, to those that share so much helpful info here.
Sincerely,
Katrina Davis
Durango CO
But mainly, I want to clear up something that may be a major hurdle to your plans.
