[JSchiess]

I have hunted around the forum for a bit trying to find the definitive answer to the battery replacement issue. Does Honda readily admit to extending the warranty in NY. One posting mentioned that it was extended in some of the warmer states after mentioning that it it had been extended to all 50 states, so I am not sure. Another posting had Honda settling a lawsuit to pay for the expenses involved in replacing the system, about a year after the owner had to cover the expense.

I am absolutey nuts over a locally available 2001 that has spent its life in NY, but it has 83,000 miles on it, over the 80,000 warranty on everything that makes the car so nifty under its ultra cool skin. Does the warranty support owners subsequent to the first?

Love the car but I am wary of unaffordable expenses after the initial purchase. Thanks for any advice or information.

Justin

 

[Insightful Trekker]

So you missed the Sticky post here :?:

Sticky: US IMA warranty 10 year extension UPDATED to all 50 states!
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=4796

(first post in this forum)

The warranty "killers" will be a salvaged title or Canadian import. The specifics as to what is "salvage" varies somewhat from state to state. But you seem confused on the limits of the 80K warranty and it's extension. For the FIRST 80K only the IMA components are covered. During the SECOND 70K (up to 150K) ONLY the IMA batteries are covered for an IMA battery code of death. The updated MCM & BCM will be covered if not already replaced. The bumper-to bumper warranty expired at 3/36.

Also and unfortunately one member when moving from one state to another somehow had a clerical error mis brand his Insight as flood damage (salvage) and had to sue to get the problem rectified.

Call any Honda dealer with the VIN to see if the warranties have been canceled.

HTH!

 

[JSchiess]

How about salt

Tomorrow I will try and see if I can get someone at Honda on the phone and find out what I can with the VIN.

My next question though is about salt. Up in upstate NY they use a lot of salt on the roads in winter. Cars rust early. Even aluminum seems to get pitted and ugly. A Geo Metro will collapse it suspension in a few years. Has anyone out there in Insight-land had any problems with corrosion to the wiring or rust to any parts of the underside?

Thanks again for any info. I jsut hope the car I want is waiting for me to figure it all out.

Justin

 

[Insightful Trekker]

From a deleted multipost

I called Honda Customer Service this morning and based on my VIN they do not show this car as eligible for any extension of the warranty for any components. This car has always been in NY.

In the quoted Honda memo of May 12, 2006, if I skip the "mod edit" in parentheses, then there is nothing to suggest that the extension goes beyond the 7 states listed. Other experiences I read of in the forum postings do not indicate a clear cut definitive answer. It seems to be up to the dealer.

Another question though: Has anyone had any experience with driving regularly on heavily salted roads like they have here in upstate NY. Even aluminum siding isn't safe up here and you can hear steel rusting on a quiet night.

Thanks again for any info,
Justin

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Ok Justin your gonna have to help yourself some.

Yes, the post is of an _official_ Honda Service Bulliten. Seems like you found another clueless dealership. :| IIRC there are posts in the thread that outline various member expereinces, some from outside the original 7 states. ALSO the 43 state warranty is described in its own seperate S.B. (Hint: read the whole thread).

IIRC you can call Honda customer relations with the same question and VIN to get verification "from the horses mouth".
(see their website http://www.hondacars.com)

I'd be more concerned of the possibility that the warranty had been canceled (for the reason(s) listed above) or the replacement has already been done under the warranty.

As far as salt and damage see my location (I don't expereince much). I was hoping some of our Canadian or northern tier States would have chimed in by now.

There is quite a bit of suspension steel under the car and salt will ultimately take its toll. But compaired to the relatively thin sheet metal of most body parts these parts should be good for many years in semi-harsh conditions.

A pre purchase inspection by your trusted mechanic is always a good idea (even down south, but we usually don't have to watch out for rust. )

HTH!

 

[Guillermo]

My 2000 Insight has seen many winters and the roads are salted often in the Toronto area. There are some small areas of surface rust on the visible steel parts under my car, in the rear suspension and front suspension, but it's not a big deal at all. I've seen this amount of rust on 1 year old GM cars.

None of the aluminum parts of the car including underneath show any signs of corrosion. Most of the aluminum under the car looks brand new in fact when clean.

 

[trunkout]

same here...I've had mine for 4 years(?) in Missouri and they salt the crap outta the roads out here.

Not any sign of corrosion anywhere.
Keep in mind I wash often.
And NEVER wax!!!

 

[joeaax1j]

But you seem confused on the limits of the 80K warranty and it's extension. For the FIRST 80K only the IMA components are covered. During the SECOND 70K (up to 150K) ONLY the IMA batteries are covered for an IMA battery code of death. The updated MCM & BCM will be covered if not already replaced.

OK, bear with me please. I'm still a little confused. I understand the above statement to read that for the second 70K, the warranty will only apply if there is an IMA battery code of death, correct? In my case, I've got a 2000 model that is suffering from stalling in the middle of auto idle stops. See:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6818

My car is still within the 8yr/80K mile original battery warranty as it only has 25K miles on it. Does the original warranty REQUIRE the IMA battery code of death for warranty service? Or is the original warranty less strict?

Thanks,
Bryan

 

[IamIan]

cars like houses can have lots of problems for lots of different reasons...

Generally The Only warranty issue that requires a code of death is the replacement of a faulty IMA Battery pack in the second 70.

like any type of insurance or warranty etc... they all have limits ... and most only apply to specific things that they will list.

IMA battery replacement policy has nothing to do with your insight stalling unless the IMA battery is the cause of the stalling.... and I can not see any reason mechanically why the IMA Battery would have anything to do with the Insight Stalling..... Just like any Car from any company different parts of the car have different warranties...

But if an Insight were to stall... just shift to neutral and then back into gear .... When I tried to teach my wife to drive a standard she stalled my Insight and just used the Cars built in restart from Auto-Stop feature to restart the Engine.... I use the same feature when the car comes out of FAS to restart...

If you really need the problem fixed then you have to go to someone who can fix it... often times that is a dealer... but dealers are just people and just businesses... they too will have uneducated and uninformed and mis-informed people from the mechanics to the customer service rep... like any warranty ... it is a legally binding agreement and if you think they are obligated to fix it and they think they are not you have legal options to explore.... and then the courts and decide who gets what.... but most of the time Honda the Company steps in to deal with Dealership problems before the courts do...

It is not that the warranty is less or more strict... the IMA Batteries are covered for longer from the beginning than other parts of the car are.... In the beginning allot of policies over lap... and the parts that fail the most and Honda has the least faith in generally have the shorter warranties... so as time goes by you pass Year marks and Mileage marks that have less durable parts on the car no longer covered , as all things wear out eventually ... while more durable parts on the car like the IMA Batteries still remain covered.

But again I will say dealerships are just a business... they want to make money... and the warranty is legally enforceable ... if you disagree with their version / interpretation... contract Honda Cooperate or get a lawyer... or go to a different Dealership.... same is true with any car or any warranty item....

 

[joeaax1j]

Generally The Only warranty issue that requires a code of death is the replacement of a faulty IMA Battery pack in the second 70.

Thanks for the clarification.

IMA battery replacement policy has nothing to do with your insight stalling unless the IMA battery is the cause of the stalling.... and I can not see any reason mechanically why the IMA Battery would have anything to do with the Insight Stalling

But if an Insight were to stall... just shift to neutral and then back into gear

I'm guessing that you haven't ever suffered from the problem that I (and a few others on this board) suffer from. Shifting to neutral and then back doesn't fix this kind of stall. The car stalls while in auto-idle stop mode, and the ONLY way to restart the car is to turn the key in the ignition at which point the traditional starter turns over the internal combustion engine to restart. During any other kind of stall (such as driver-initiated stalls like poor shifting), the process you mention above works fine. Essentially, the car thinks the battery is fully charged and therefore doesn't allow the battery to receive any additional charge. In reality, the battery is actually depleted, and therefore the car has almost zero assist and completely dies during auto-idle stop. As designed, the car shouldn't enter auto-idle stop, because the battery is essentially dead, however, the SOC is stuck on fully charged and NEVER moves. Of course, you might be right in that the battery might not have a problem at all. It might simply be the BCM or MCM.

 

[Armin]

Shifting to neutral and then back doesn't fix this kind of stall. The car stalls while in auto-idle stop mode, and the ONLY way to restart the car is to turn the key in the ignition at which point the traditional starter turns over the internal combustion engine to restart.

I think I have experienced this kind of stall with my old battery. (this was a battery that I drove heavily with daily full charge cycles way beyond the point where it caused IMA lights and battery code of death). In my case, I don't think the stalling happened when the battery was empty (it wasn't and would provide assist well after the stalling event).

While I don't understand what caused the problem, changing the battery did fix it.

 

[IamIan]

You are very correct I have never experienced that type of stalling in my car.... but even as you describe it I do not see any way the IMA high voltage battery could have anything to do with the car stalling....

If you completely take the High Voltage IMA Battery out of the car the Car will still start and run on the 12V Battery... Granted with several codes... but it will still start and run.... Now without the High Voltage IMA Battery you wouldn't have any alternator function from the DC-DC System so you are just draining the 12V battery and once it gets low enough then you do not have enough power left to fire the spark plugs and you could stall from low battery then... But the 12V Battery indicator on the dash would come on long before the 12V battery was too low to fire the spark plugs.... And if you are not seeing the 12V Battery indicator come on on the Dash before the stall then it is not a low battery issue with the 12V either.... and must be something not IMA Battery related....

Granted I am not an Engineer and I am not a Hybrid Mechanic.... but I still do not see how any fault in the IMA High Voltage Battery could cause the the car to stall as described.... if the car stalled because the 12V was too low to fire the spark plugs then turning the key to start the car would do nothing as you definitely would not have enough 12V left for the starter....

I suspect some other cause if the cause of the stalling...

As for the SoC not reading correctly....

While it is true the NiMH has a nearly flat discharge Voltage for over 60% of its Capacity... The car is supposed to keep the battery pack from going bellow 20% Deapth of Discharge in order to extend the Battery Cycle Life.... bellow 20% Deapth of Discharge the IMA High Voltage Battery Pack still has more than enough power to IMA turn the Car over.... If the Car does not do that than I see the SoC problem being in the BCM and again not the IMA High Voltage Battery Pack.....

Something else occurs to me....
If the Car was in Auto-Stop Idle .... Then how would you know the car stalled???? Did you get lights on the dash???.... or did the car just not come out of Auto-Stop Idle when you put it in gear.... which might indicate a problem between the MCM and the IMA motor itself.

 

[joeaax1j]

but even as you describe it I do not see any way the IMA high voltage battery could have anything to do with the car stalling....

Right, As I mentioned above, I'm guessing the problem to be more like with the BCM or the MCM. In fact, there is at least one report of this problem being resolved by a warranty replacement of those two modules.

If the Car was in Auto-Stop Idle .... Then how would you know the car stalled???? Did you get lights on the dash???

Yes. The car sits in there in AIS mode, with the AIS indicator on. Then without warning, the AIS dash indicator goes out, and the 12V battery charge indicator, oil pressure warning light, etc. all come on. The car is stalled. Putting the car back into gear does nothing at this point. And the IMA battery doesn't start the car up, the traditional starter does.

I think I'm going to have to break down here at some point and take it to the dealership to show it to them and see what they can do for me.

 

[Armin]

Yes. The car sits in there in AIS mode, with the AIS indicator on. Then without warning, the AIS dash indicator goes out, and the 12V battery charge indicator, oil pressure warning light, etc. all come on. The car is stalled. Putting the car back into gear does nothing at this point. And the IMA battery doesn't start the car up, the traditional starter does.

Exactly my experience also. Although I found that a reboot (turning ignition off, waiting a few seconds, then starting) would sometimes start using IMA. But then, in most of these situations it's tough to run controlled experiments, with a bunch of impatient drivers behind me and a light that turned green minutes ago in front...