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Jdm lb cvt

The car was fitted with a (1K100-PHM-A00) BCM and a 1K000-PHM-905 MCM (CV) no idea how rare they are.
I suspect that the BCM is one of the later battery saving replacement ones with a very narrow operating soc window, as per my testing results I saw an soc range of about 12-15% for 3-19 bars.

I note there is an A01 [later version ?] I wonder if that squeezes the range as much or was a later revision to expand it a bit after customer complaints that a new BCM (A00) meant it was charging a lot of the time and had little useable capacity :?
 

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Does there exist (or could someone build) a functional diagram of the major parts (ECM, MDM/MPI, BCM, MCM, battery(s), DC-DC converters, etc.) and their interconnections/switching that would show "functionally" how the whole car works, including charging, assisting, regening, etc. etc?
The "Insight Technical Manual.pdf" has a good explanation of all the workings of the car. I think it is part of the files that can be downloaded at the post with all the Insight manuals, links etc.

The "Honda Insight 2000-2006 Factory Service Manuals" has all the schematics of the car titled "Wiring" at the bottom of the page.
 

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305 BCM/MCM set performance?

Does anyone have an idea how the 305 set of BCM and MCM performs for mpg compared to the original year 2000 101/030 combination? It appears the 305 set was an early,matched warranty replacement set, circa 2001. Just wondering if they suffer the limited performance of the A01 and later modules that were designed to preserve battery life above mpg. Thanks for any feedback.
 

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I'd also like any feedback about the 305 combo. Also, I'm wondering if Manual Transmission and CVT cars have MCMs and/or BCMs specific to those transmissions, i.e. are MT and CVT MCMs and BCMs interchangeable? I noticed that the 305 MCM I have has an "MT" designation, in the corner of the sticker, not sure if that "MT" has anything to do with 'manual transmission'...

On the 305 combo, previous poster might be right about that combo being a warranty replacement combo, as I'm working with a pack that was supposed to be a warranty replacement and it has the 305 combo...

Does anyone have an idea how the 305 set of BCM and MCM performs for mpg compared to the original year 2000 101/030 combination? It appears the 305 set was an early,matched warranty replacement set, circa 2001. Just wondering if they suffer the limited performance of the A01 and later modules that were designed to preserve battery life above mpg. Thanks for any feedback.
edit: looking through the computers spreadsheet, I see that CVT cars and Manual cars listed can have the same BCM part numbers; for example, there are CVTs and MTs listed with the 305, A01, and 030 BCMs. But I don't see any CVTs and MTs having the same MCM part numbers listed. But there's not a whole lot of CVTs in the list. Two CVTs have the 904 MCM; no MTs listed have that. One CVT has the 305 BCM and a 905 MCM...

edit: looking at parts listed at Majestic Honda, if I select 2002 CVT, the MCM listed is 905; if I select 2002 manual transmission, the MCM listed is 060. The BCMs listed are the same, A01. So, two things: 1) it looks like the latest/last BCM is likely the A01, and 2) it looks like the last/latest MCM offering is either the 905 for CVTs or the 060 for MTs; it looks like the CVTs and MTs have different MCMs, that they might not be interchangeable... Hopefully someone with firsthand experience can confirm or deny...

edit: OK, I guess it's a little more complicated than that. Here's all the MCMs and BCMs, for all years and transmissions, listed at Majestic:

2000 MT 1K000-PHM-050 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC May Have Been Discontinued
[Nothing listed for BCM, no CVTs listed in 2000.]

2001 MT 1K000-PHM-050 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC May Have Been Discontinued
2001 MT 1K100-PHM-030 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC Discontinued

2001 CVT 1K000-PHM-904 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC Discontinued
2001 CVT 1K100-PHM-030 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC Discontinued

2002 MT 1K000-PHM-060 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2002 MT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2002 CVT 1K000-PHM-905 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2002 CVT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2003 MT 1K000-PHM-060 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2003 MT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2003 CVT 1K000-PHM-905 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2003 CVT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2004 MT 1K000-PHM-070 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2004 MT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2004 CVT 1K000-PHM-906 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2004 CVT 1K100-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2005 MT 1K000-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2005 MT 1K100-PHM-A03 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2005 CVT 1K000-PHM-A50 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2005 CVT 1K100-PHM-A03 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2006 MT 1K000-PHM-A01 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2006 MT 1K100-PHM-A03 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

2006 CVT 1K000-PHM-A51 CONTROL UNIT, MOTOR ELECTRONIC
2006 CVT 1K100-PHM-A03 CONTROL UNIT, BATTERY ELECTRONIC

I ran through the list at Honda Parts Now, and most of it is the same - except a little additional info for the 2000 and 2001 years:

2000 MT 1K000-PHM-050 Control Unit, Motor Electronic
1K100-PHM-000 Control Unit, Battery Electronic, Replaced by: 1K100-PHM-030
1K100-PHM-010 Control Unit, Battery Electronic (REFER TO PIB: 04-02eight), Replaced by: 1K100-PHM-030
[No CVTs listed in 2000]

2001 MT 1K000-PHM-050 Control Unit, Motor Electronic
1K100-PHM-030 Control Unit, Battery Electronic (REFER TO PIB: 04-02eight) (NA USE ALT: 1K100-PHM-A01), Discontinued [i.e. the 030 was discontinued]

2001 CVT 1K000-PHM-904 Control Unit, Motor Electronic (NOT AVAILABLE), Discontinued
1K100-PHM-030 Control Unit, Battery Electronic (REFER TO PIB: 04-02eight) (NA USE ALT: 1K100-PHM-A01), Discontinued

edit: Thought I'd add this info from the knowledge base http://www.insightcentral.net/KB/recall-bcm.html - an excerpt from a recall letter sent out to 2000 and 2001 owners, in November 2001:

"A software problem exists in this control system which may allow the IMA battery to provide excessive assist under cold ambient temperature conditions (near -10C). This will result in one or both of the following two symptoms and may cause the IMA battery's condition to deteriorate over time:
1) The IMA system will not provide continuous assist even though the battery indicates that it is fully charged.
2) The vehicle will not automatically restart using the electric motor after Auto-stop."

Given the date of the letter, this 'problem' might be found in the 000, 010, and/or 030 BCMs - the ones listed as discontinued above... On the other hand, it looks like the 000 and 010 BCMs were first replaced by the 030 - and then the A01 replaced the 030... Also, looks like this might apply to the 050 and 904 MCMs as well...
 

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Also, I'm wondering if Manual Transmission and CVT cars have MCMs and/or BCMs specific to those transmissions, i.e. are MT and CVT MCMs and BCMs interchangeable? I noticed that the 305 MCM I have has an "MT" designation, in the corner of the sticker, not sure if that "MT" has anything to do with 'manual transmission'...
FYI, the part numbers I listed strongly suggest that the MT and CVT MCMs are not interchangeable. The "MT" on my 305 MCM and the "CV" on a CVT car's MCM that I just looked at seem to confirm it: manual transmission and CVT cars don't have interchangeable MCMs... Of course, I don't know if one or the other would still work on one or the other, yet they do come with transmission-specific MCMs...
 

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MT & CVT MCM's are physically interchangeable but they do operate slightly differently.
The CVT MCM limits IMA current when starting presumably to protect the start clutch/CVT drivetrain.

Swapping in a manual MCM removes that limit ;)
That's what we did on the UK rally car and I have done with my JDM CVT. No problems with over 5 years of use.

I think Honda were being overly cautious as the Bosch based CVT is capable of transmitting considerable torque.
Perhaps those flywheel splines were a concern!

BCM's are the same.
 

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Like Peter says. I've ran CVT computers in my MT Insights for years in the past with no problems. They're all interchangeable, but operate slightly differently.
 

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I'd also like any feedback about the 305 combo....
I tried the 305 BCM for a short trip (~40 miles). So far I see no difference between it and the 010 I was using. On the other hand, I'm not sure what the BCM actually controls among the 3 computers...

I saw:
-72% hanging positive recal, recals to 75%
-~65% background charge
-probably goes up to 81 or 82%, though I only drove it a few points over 75%
-when I first turned car on it was at 19.9%, seemed to do the typical 'find SOC routine', recal-ed to 75% in short order...

Do we know if the BCM actually controls all these aspects? What does the BCM control vs. the MCM and ECM in terms of IMA?

I generally understand that the BCM monitors the battery condition, collects data on voltage taps, temperature, and current, and ... that's about it. I gather the MCM controls the electricity going to the electric motor, partially based on what it knows about the battery from the BCM and what it's commanded to do from the ECM, and that it probably has the ability to adjust the amount of electricity and not slavishly do what the ECM commands it to do. That's about it there... Anyone familiar with a good thread that covers these things?
 

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They do what they say on the tin.

The BCM manages the battery and gathers and collates battery info.
It sends serial info to the MCM including battery temp, soc, voltage, current etc and go/no go status and error codes. The BCM does all the recal soc stuff.

The MCM controls the motor and drives the dash display based on info from the BCM and IMA requests from the ECM. So if the ecm wants full assist but the bcm says battery is low/hot/cold/hungover etc then the MCM won't give full assist etc etc

ECM Controls the IC motor and sends assist/regen requests to the MCM.

It's pretty straight forward.
 

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Just came across some info in one of the service bulletins, figured I'd put it here and if I run across anything else hopefully I'll remember to add it here, too. The bulletin says that a problem with the 010 BCM is the 'cold weather' issue - too much power demand for the pack in really cold weather. Not very specific. Here's some of the text:

"November 27, 2001 SB 01-102
Applies To: 2000–01 Insight with M/T – See VEHICLES AFFECTED
Product Update: IMA Controller Modification

BACKGROUND
....In very cold weather, power demands on the IMA battery module can exceed output, causing permanent damage to the battery module.
VEHICLES AFFECTED
Not all 2000–01 Insights with M/T are affected by this product update. Only vehicles that are registered and normally driven in cold weather areas are affected....
CORRECTIVE ACTION
Replace the battery condition monitor (BCM) module and the motor control module (MCM).
PARTS INFORMATION
ECU Module Kit: P/N 06060-PHM-305, H/C 6912901
WARRANTY CLAIM INFORMATION
Operation Number: 118121
Flat Rate Time: 0.8 hour
Failed Part: P/N 1K100-PHM-010"
 

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Interesting. That's different than I've always heard it. In the past, it was said to be a cold weather charging bug...
 

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fyi, there's a little more/slightly different detail at the bottom of post number 25 above. I think it's about the same issue, both dated November 2001... I vaguely recall something about a cold weather charging issue, too, but it's probably this problem with 'excessive assist', not charging...
 

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The "more detail" in post 25 says -10C (14F), so if it's the same problem, which is likely, then it's -10C...

....an excerpt from a recall letter sent out to 2000 and 2001 owners, in November 2001:

"A software problem exists in this control system which may allow the IMA battery to provide excessive assist under cold ambient temperature conditions (near -10C). This will result in one or both of the following two symptoms and may cause the IMA battery's condition to deteriorate over time:
1) The IMA system will not provide continuous assist even though the battery indicates that it is fully charged.
2) The vehicle will not automatically restart using the electric motor after Auto-stop."
 

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Here's a little (interesting to me) tidbit of info I garnered today working with my car. I was swapping my 010/030 BCM/MCM back into the car, replacing the 305 combo I've been running for quite a while now. And when I got the 010 BCM back in, the pack voltage reading, what was displayed on my OBDIIC&C for the "Bvo" parameter, was quite lower than what the 305 BCM would have been, and lower than what I read with a cheap yet calibrated DMM...

My 010 BCM read a total pack voltage about 5V lower than my 305 BCM.

Isn't that weird?. Might it be a calibration thing? I kind of doubt every 305 vs. 010 would be like this, but rather, it highlights that different BCMs can have very different pack voltage readings...

edit: see post #44 below. Turns out I hadn't been reading Bvo on the 305 BCM; I was reading Mvo. Both BCMs read the same...
 

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Interesting observation...

Bvo has always been off by 4-5V as far as I've noticed, so I'll have to pay more attention to that.

I don't think it's a calibration thing, every BCM I've ever tested has been off by that amount, but I don't think I have any 305's, which are Canadian market computers...
 

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I read 160.4V with the DMM; the 305 BCM would have read 161 to 163V (probably 163, I didn't actually check the voltage right before I pulled it, but I log this stuff all the time so I pretty much know what it would have been under the circumstances); the 010 BCM read 157V...

I don't think the total voltage factors-in to any of the key management, though. For example, I did a pos recal with the 010, holding engine speed at 3500. The recal happened at 181V 22A. With the 305 BCM it has usually been about 186V at 22A... Even so, the 010 ended up adding about 10% to my charge state, i.e. its 75% nominal would have been 85% if I had the 305 BCM in and it charged as much as the 010 BCM did during this pos recal...

Why do you think the 305 is a Canadian model?
 

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I always note people's computers when I can. Just had someone from BC in here over the weekend with an original battery and 305 computers.
 
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