[retepsnikrep]

Dear forum members.

The brake and clutch switch mods have been discussed at length on the forums, but to recap they give the following benefits.

1) Brake pedal switch piggy back mod allows full regen braking without pressing brake pedal, so avoiding wasted energy. This also activates brake lights, and appears to the vehicle as if you were lightly pressing brake pedal.

2) Clutch pedal switch piggy back mod shuts off the IMA system, and allows you to prevent assist or charging at will. This helps you control the charging so that is occurs when you want it, and not in a parasitic fashion when battery gets low. (You still need to ensure it is activated suffciently to maintain battery charge), but this can be done when road conditions are more favourable.

This post shows my brake and clutch switch mod install, and includes some high res photos.

This is not a substitute for the excellent MIMA system, which I may well install later, but it is less invasive, and it may be more suitable for those cars with warranty remaining.

First of all the safety stuff, the Insight has high voltages at several points, this mod does not access these systems, but if you are unsure let someone else do it for you.

Working under the dashboard to get access to the switches and wiring is very, very difficult!!! I am 6'4" and my back is killing be now after hanging upside down, squeezed into the footwell for an hour, trying to solder!

If you are small and nimble it will be a lot easier!

Under the dash some of the SRS airbag wiring is accesible, don't touch it!
[Mod insert] Any yellow colored connector or any wire loom that is yellow is SRS related. Even disconnecting one of these connectors without first taking the proper precautions can cause an airbag to deploy :!: Severe injury or death can occur in your hit at the wrong angle.
[End mod insert]

You don't need to disconnect any of the insight systems to install this mod, but ensure the vehicle is off of course.

This mod involves splicing into four difficult to access wires and the drilling of one hole to suit your switch in the Steering column shroud.

OK lets start.

First of all you need an on-off-(on) sub miniature double pole toggle switch. Double pole to keep the brake and clutch circuits seperate, but allowing them to be controlled with the same switch. Rating should be about 3A, but it's not critical. Smaller physical size the better.

The three position switch has a central off position, one way is a locking on position, and the other is a momentary on position.

In use this means pushing the switch away from you into the locked on position mimics the clutch pedal being depressed, and disables the IMA system. IMA remains inactive until you move the switch to the central off or regen positions.

Pulling the switch towards you into the momentary on position mimics footbrake application, and forces maximum regen for as long as the switch is held or the battery monitor system will allow. (Engine speed, battery state of charge, and battery temp all effect regen performance and duration)

Releasing the switch from the momentary on regen position returns to the default centre off position, and leaves the vehicle in standard IMA mode.

Nice and easy, all on one switch, mounted under the indicator stalk for ease of access and use. It's a bit like an early PTT "Push To Talk" radio switch.

The step by step install process is as follows.

1) Obtain your switch and attach four suitable wires of about 3A rating 4ft in length.

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch007.jpg

Remember one half of the double pole switch is the clutch switch bypass, and the other is the brake switch bypass. Get the connections the right way round, and don't use one pole of the switch for both lots of connections, momentary for the brake switch, and locking for the clutch switch. The brake and clutch circuits should be completely independant and isolated from each other.

2) Remove the steering column lower cowling, there are three crosshead screws underneath, and a number of clips on each side which need to be eased out.

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch005.jpg

3) Assess the steering column cowling, and decide where you want the switch. I put mine just below the indicator stalk on the left hand side. (I am not convinced I got my switch in the best place, you might find somewhere better.) Ensure there is clearance for the switch when the cowling is re-installed, also make sure the indicator stalk does not foul the new switch stalk or interfere with it's normal operation. There is not much space available inside the steering column assembly, so check carefully before you drill the switch mounting hole.

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch009.jpg

4) Drill the hole suitable for your switch, and mount it in position, route wires under dash. Remember momentary position towards you, and locking position away from you. Test switch, does it work as you expect!

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch011.jpg

5) Reassemble cowling, making sure switch and wire do not foul anything in the steering column assembly.

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch004.jpg

6) Add semi flexible extension to switch stalk to allow easy use. I used a piece of thin black plastic 5mm diameter tube the same length as the indicator stalk. I heated this and formed the end, so that is would fit over switch stalk and mould itself into position. One drop of super glue and it was fixed. I also used a small piece of heatshrink to tidy up the joint, and a slightly larger tube on the other end to give more of a stalk like look. It is easier to experiment with this before the switch is fitted, or buy a spare one (I did), and use that for stalk design and moulding

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch014.jpg

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch015.jpg

7) Manoeuvre yourself into the footwell, and locate the position of brake and clutch switches on foot pedal assembly. Note how inaccesible these are and swear! The clutch switch is the worst to access! Decide how you are going to break into the wiring to piggy back the switches. I managed to splice into both sets of wires, and solder upside down to attach mine. Ensure any connections are secure and well insulated. Remember we are piggybacking switches, which means the ones we are installing will be in parallel with the ones on the pedal assembly, not series.

The clutch switch is on the left in these pictures, it uses a small plug with only a short section of wire available for splicing. It appears to use miniature spade connectors, so it might be possible to make up a simple extension, but I did not investigate this further, I spliced into the wires.

The brake switch plug uses standard 6.3mm female spade connectors in a moulded unit. It is easily possible to make up a little extension for this circuit using male and female auto spade connectors. Soldering upside down at an impossible angle is not recommended for the faint hearted!

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch022.jpg

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch012.jpg

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch013.jpg

8) Extricate yourself from the footwell, tidy up and go for a test drive. Congratulate yourself on a job well done, and see what improvements in mpg you can achieve.

http://www.solarvan.co.uk/insight/switch002.jpg

Estimated cost of mod £1.00 or $1.50!

Time to do the mod 2hrs. 1hr spent cursing upside down in footwell.

I hope this helps.

If you have to take your vehicle in for warranty work, remove the switch or just tell them it is for the hands free phone system!

Peter

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Great post retep.

Hope you don't mind but I added the rest of the story re; Airbags as noted in your post. I'd believe that interested readers will print out your post for the walk thru. So me adding the caution in this seperate post may not get the attention it needs.

Feel free to edit or remove my insert and rephrase it in your own words if desired.

Sincerely,

 

[retepsnikrep]

Safety

John

No problem. Safety is important.

Peter

 

[Hodakaguy]

I'm looking at doing this same mod, thanks for the write up! Where can I get a on-off-momentary switch that will fit? I stopped at the local radioshack and Grainger but couldn't find what I was looking for. Any ideas or part numbers? I like your location of the switch, that will be perfect for me.

Thanks,

Hodakaguy

 

[retepsnikrep]

RS or farnell, your local electronics store should be able to advise you

 

[Hodakaguy]

Yeah so far the only on-off-momentary on switches I've found seem to be to big. Haven't been able to find a micro version yet. Other than Granger and Radio Shack i'm not sure where to look.

Thanks

Hodakaguy

 

[3-Wheeler]

Hodakaguy,

For what it's worth, I just used a normal ON/OFF switch, and placed in on the front side of the shifter.

When going through the gears slowly, I tend to turn the switch on and off several times before getting up to my speedy 45 mph. So, for me, having it on the shifter really helps.

Jim.

 

[JimIsbell]

OK, curiosity prompts me to ask, is there a mod that can turn on and off ASSIST, other than the MIMA system. Since assist turns on when the engine is loaded, what is the sensor that detects the load? Is it a simple vacuum sensor??

If one had a three way, mom-on, off, and mom-on, switch that could give REGEN, normal, and ASSIST, that would make a nice cheap and simple MINI MIMA with the center normal position being to let the computer do the work.

Another question, why would one want to turn off the IMA ?? Wont that also deplete the 12V battery??

 

[satchel]

Another question, why would one want to turn off the IMA ?? Wont that also deplete the 12V battery??

To avoid depleting the HV battery in acceleration and hill climbing events or to avoid regen when not wanted. Otherwise I have it on so regen occurs if needed and for braking regen. It's only off a small percentage of the time so no DC DC 12V worries. I'm not sure if the DC DC is even disabled with the Calpod.

Someone else will have to address the Assist trigger question...

edit: as noted in another recent thread I did no soldering, just poked the wires into the clutch and brake switches and have had no problem with them losing contact or falling out. I put my radioshack switches in the dash blanks above the pocket on the left side of the dash.

 

[Fl_Fyr_Fytr]

These are the single best mods I have made to this car! I use them constantly.

Do also keep in mind that the IMA disable doesn't seem to work in the '06 version

 

[Hodakaguy]

Thanks for the feedback. I ordered up the switch I need and I'll get it installed as soon as it arrives. I can see where this will come in handy to maximize MPG's. I actually purchased a small micro switch from Radioshack on Saturday but it latches both directions and the more I thought about it I really want the momentary switch on the brake circuit so I just ordered the switch I wanted. I've thought about location and still like the idea of having it under the turn signal switch the best...I have long fingers and my hand is already there so I think I'll try that spot out.

Yeah I'm going to try to just tin the ends of the wires and insert them without splicing, I hate splicing into wires if I don't have to.

Thanks again

Hodakaguy

 

[JimIsbell]

How does turning on REGEN help with MPG??

 

[satchel]

How does turning on REGEN help with MPG??

I don't understand your question. Without regen you end up with a depleted IMA battery and no Assist. Without the mod the computer is regening or assisting when it wants to, not necessarily when you'd like it to.

 

[retepsnikrep]

How does turning on REGEN help with MPG??

Jim

It's not so much turning on regen but maximising it. When I had the switch fitted I used it all the time instead of the foot brake except for the last 25M or so when comming to a stop.

Lets imagine you are on a long descent then you may have to use the brakes occasionally wasting some of the energy in the pads etc unless you are very delicate with the pedal. Using the switch forces maximum regen so you capture more of the energy. More energy captured means more available for acceleration etc and less fuel used.

 

[Fl_Fyr_Fytr]

How does turning on REGEN help with MPG??

Using these two mods together opens up many new fuel-saving options. For instance, assist can be shut off for normal highway cruising to permit easier lean-burn and higher mpg's due to the loss of background charging. When descending a large hill, assist-off permits the car to pick up speed fast. When your speed becomes too high, fliping the switch to "normal" permits partial regen helping to control speed with maximum efficiancy. If your speed is still climbing even with assist on, a simple depression of the "max regen" switch slows the car only with regen (no brakes).

Of course, the most obvious benefit of "max regen" is the ability to slow almost to a stop when approching a stop-light without the use off 100% inefficiant brake pads. If crusing in fourth and I see the light change ahead, I downshift into third, tap the gas (to permit regen), and begin pressing the "max regen" switch. It works so well that it can nearly bring the car to a stop before the clutch and brakes are needed.

So, to answer your question, "max regen" allows you to recoupe losses caused by the IMA disable mod, and ensures max battery capasity without the use of more fuel.

Next on my list is FAS. It will make a great addition!

 

[JimIsbell]

I am trying to learn here, not just playing Devils Advocate.

Using these two mods together opens up many new fuel-saving options. For instance, assist can be shut off for normal highway cruising to permit easier lean-burn and higher mpg's due to the loss of background charging.

Ok, the last I understand, but I dont have any problem using the throttle in such a way that there is no ASST and lean burn is easy with the TPS modification.

When descending a large hill, assist-off permits the car to pick up speed fast. When your speed becomes too high, fliping the switch to "normal" permits partial regen helping to control speed with maximum efficiancy. If your speed is still climbing even with assist on, a simple depression of the "max regen" switch slows the car only with regen (no brakes).

Again, I dont understand. I have NEVER been on a hill so steep that normal REGEN would not keep the car from overspeeding. I would be scared out of my wits to just look over such a hill...#

Of course, the most obvious benefit of "max regen" is the ability to slow almost to a stop when approching a stop-light without the use off 100% inefficiant brake pads. If crusing in fourth and I see the light change ahead, I downshift into third, tap the gas (to permit regen), and begin pressing the "max regen" switch. It works so well that it can nearly bring the car to a stop before the clutch and brakes are needed.

I have no problem stopping my car using a very light touch on the brake pedal and no brake pad contact. I use that until the REGEN drops out when the engine drops below 1100 RPM. At that point I am within 150 feet of the required stop.

So, to answer your question, "max regen" allows you to recoupe losses caused by the IMA disable mod, and ensures max battery capasity without the use of more fuel.

Now this really doesnt make sense to me. Why not just remove the IMA disable and end the losses??

Next on my list is FAS. It will make a great addition!

I am still trying to learn. What does the FAS give you that the normal AS does not.....coasting?? Will the FAS interact with the IMA disable, re-energizing it maybe? Will the forced REGEN interact with the FAS, maybe restarting the engine ?

 

[satchel]

But there's no way for you to use the throttle to avoid forced regen.

You're on the coast. There are plenty of hills here in Kansas where the car will overspeed without some extra regen.

Are you sure your light foot avoids any pad contact?

I think you overread 'losses' here, I believe he refers to regen not gained under unfavorable conditions, ie mpg robbing background regen during cruising, which you can avoid with the mod. You can defer the regen to more favorable circumstances such as braking regen or downhill regen.

The FAS mod lets you regain all the autostop restart functions that are lost by simply keying off the engine.

 

[Hodakaguy]

Ok...Installed the switch...Really easy mod. Can't wait to get out on the road and try it out. Here are a few pics of the install in case anyone else is going to do the same mod.

It took me a while to locate the switch that I wanted. I wanted a switch like the one Retepsnikrep described at the start of this thread, An On-Off-(On) switch what would latch in one direction and be momentary in the other with the middle being off. I found the switch at AllElectronics.com for $2.00. The part# is MTS-81 (SP3T ON-ON-(ON) Mini Toggle). The middle is still off if your not using those connections so it works fine. Here's a pic of the switch wired up.

Here I lowered the center trim piece and installed the switch. Getting ready to attach the wires.

Here are the wire connect points. Unplug the brake switch wire harness (right red arrow) and the clutch switch wire harness (left red arrow). As member Satchel mentioned in another thread there is no need to solder into the factory wires. Just tin the switch wires with a little solder and slide them into the back side of the factory harness connections. The wires are a tight fit and make good contact with no need to hack into the factory wiring. Here you can see my wires added to the clutch switch connection (green arrow). After pushing the wires in the back side of the connectors I added a little electrical tape to keep the wires in place and prevent them from being pulled out.

Continued Below......

Hodakaguy

 

[Hodakaguy]

And the Finished product. I used a piece of carbon fiber tubing as the switch stock (left over from a RC aircraft project) and a rubber automotive vacume cap for the end of the lever. I used two part epoxy to adhere the stock to the switch. The lever is long enough that I can actuate it comfortably with my fingers while holding the wheel and low enough that it doesn't get in the way of the turn signal stock.

It came out pretty nice, almost looks like it came that way from the factory. If I ever need to bring the car into Honda for any warranty work I'll just unplug the wiring and remove the switch...install a small rubber plug in the switch hole and it's like the mod was never there.

 

[retepsnikrep]

Nice Job

That looks very familiar!!! Well done.