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They are now in the car and functioning properly. I'm going to give them a workout for the next couple of months and test them to death with my MIMA.


These 8Ah sticks are not made by Panasonic/Sanyo (or Sanyo's NiMH successor FDK).


Here is the second set being prepared for another beta tester.



Assuming they pass testing, they will be available for sale by the end of the summer.


Cell test results:

Charge/Discharge curve

Charge/Discharge & V vs. Time
 

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OMG - truly *NEW* batteries??


:jumpfire:
 

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Very interesting indeed!


Are the sticks bent or is this due to the way they were photographed?

I'm having problems working out how to read the testing graphs you linked to. Could you please give some explanations to help interpret them?

Are you testing the sticks without the PTC strips in your car or did you add them in?

Thanks, Mik
 

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I know this will probably sound like a stupid beginner question (...cuz I probably am...), but isn't the OEM (Panasonic or Sanyo) 6.5Ah ? You mention 8Ah, does this mean thes new stick are a bit more dense ?

Since we are in it, have you seen stick from the I2 yet ? Are these new stick "compatible" (i.e. could you rebuild I2 pack with them ?). Not that I need now, but just looking at the options for the future... :)
 

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The sticks bend fairly easily under their own weight. It's the interconnects that bend, not the cells themselves. Nothing to worry about.

Yes, stock cells are 6.5Ah. Amp hours alone doesn't tell the whole story though; a given batteries capacity will change depending on discharge rate.

The new 8Ah cells perform over 100% better than our stock 6.5A cells at 100A discharge.
 

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Lithium is a whole 'nother ballgame. That wouldn't be practical or cost effective.
 

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Ron We wish you every luck with those. If they work as promised and cost is reasonable then that might be the end of the battery problem.

Any idea of a projected cost for 20 sticks for an end user to do their own replacement?
 

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good luck with this endeavour

Replacement sticks for our cars, if they pass your bench tests, and they should looking at those graphs, will you be offering single sticks or will it be a full set of 20?
 

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Ron We wish you every luck with those. If they work as promised and cost is reasonable then that might be the end of the battery problem.

Any idea of a projected cost for 20 sticks for an end user to do their own replacement?
I'm with Peter on this one, perhaps if we can sort out a batch to the UK we can combine shipping?
 

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I think using them in new block of 20 is the best bet, mixing them with old sticks is a bad idea IMHO. We have quite a stock of old sticks here in UK for people who want to do their own recon. Mixing new with old will lead to imbalance problems in pretty short order.

If the new ones work out and if Ron is able to supply/source them at reasonable price we could have a battery workshop day/weekend at some suitable venue were owners come up and do a stick exchange under supervision/with guidance from the more experienced UK members? That's for discussion on a different thread though.
 

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Ron , the graphs

From the graph of Time-Cap&Vol, I think it represents a cycle of charging from 0% to 100% of capacity followed by a discharge to 0% of capacity over a time period of 90 minutes for the cycle, then repeated for about 10 cycles.



Ron, for the graph, what are the values for the current?

I estimate 10 Amps for both, perhaps it was 15 Amps?
 

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We could just call them "sausages" instead of "sticks" then! :D
Well this thread is making tuesday better! I can't wait to get these sausages in my car.
What type of time frame are you predicting? Are you going to test for a few months and make them available, or would this be an option 12-18 months down the road?

Tim
 

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Also; do they work with the factory BCM? I would think the factory BCM would get confused with the extra capacity than what existed from the factory, no? It's entirely possible I'm not understanding some of the science behind it all here. I understand electronics fairly well, but I don't profess to be infallible, certainly with the limited experience I've had with my insight.

I'm REALLY curious about the price-point and shelf-life. Is it viable to purchase a set to have as a spare for when the IMA battery in the car dies (mine was replaced under warranty ~2 yrs ago), or will they go bad?

I assume the goal here was to be cheaper than the official pack from honda, so I'm guessing its in the $1-2k range.
 

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They will work with the factory BCM just fine.

Fortunately, the BCM has a method where by extra capacity can be used. It doesn't just shut the pack down after a pre-determined number of amp hours have been discharged, it waits for the battery voltage to reach the floor.

Shelf life should be like any other NiMH battery. You can not buy a set of these and keep them around for years until your IMA battery dies. Without being charged, they will self-discharge in a couple of months.
 

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I figured about as much re: shelf-life.

So if I'm understanding correctly, the extra capacity (or a separate pack in parallel) will be detected and accounted for by the BCM and the SOC meter on the IC will still operate as expected?
 

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No, not exactly. From what I understand from the data gleaned from the parallel pack mods, the BCM will still count out 4Ah like normal.

But then the SoC meter will hang at 3 bars while the BCM waits for a voltage tap to drop out. It won't limit assist until this happens.

This is known as the "3 bar bug". This phenomenon is much more readily apparent with parallel packs. It remains to be seen how and to what extent this will manifest itself with these cells.

I will be doing extensive reporting when I get the pack in.
 

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Ah, so it's more like the IC's SOC meter reads out the top 4Ah of the pack, regardless of pack capacity, but the BCM cuts out assist at some predefined capacity floor, which may or may not exist around the 4Ah below full point, depending on pack used, and pack age/deterioration.
 
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