Honda Insight Forum banner

21 - 35 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Voltage graph was deceiving...used the number and it is jerking but never saw voltage under 12. However it does drop when gas is applied vs idling.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
141 Posts
That one looks to be for the V6 and not the 4 cylinder, you'll need the one for the 4 cylinder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,005 Posts
Any danger of running it with the egr unplugged for a few days until I get the new one?
No lean burn and higher emissions for a couple days?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1 Posts
Alternative bucking ideas

2000 mt insight with 260k mi.
My son has an identical one with 230k mi. Both had been exhibiting the bucking problem when the manifold pressure was low and it is in closed loop mode after initial warm up. Steady speed light throttle, typically 30 mph or so in 3rd gear. OBD2 traces showed his to have larger negative short term fuel trims than mine as it entered the bucking condition and his bucking was much worse than mine.
Tried swapping in new O2 sensors with little change.
Tested injectors on a bench test and all good. But did notice a crack in one of the seals between the head and the injector. Replaced and not much change, even though I could find the air leak when spraying carb cleaner at it before the change out, not after.
Had been through the EGR system before with no luck.
Tried the injector cleaner route and it seemed to help mine but not my son's.
The OBD results had me sure it was the fuel control system so tried swapping in older O2 sensors. No real change.
But noticed that the newer O2 sensors had not come with thread sealant/anti seize. And I had been tightening the O2 sensor without measuring. Turns out that they come off with much less torque than the book's quoted 33 ft lbs. Adding anti seize and significantly upping the install torque to the spec made a huge change in the bucking.
Next I'm going to look at the torque on the exhaust flange nuts on his. We'd changed the cats out a couple years ago and a leak there would cause the same mis read of the actual in cylinder air fuel ratio that the poorly sealed O2 sensor would. Fresh air gets sucked into the exhaust manifold as a negative pressure pulse comes from the valve overlap timing and the low inlet manifold pressure. The speed seems to low to have it be from the exhaust system waves. Though I'd have thought that this should have made the engine run richer than the computer was trying to run.
There are many sources of false readings for setting the AFR.
1) less than all of the injectors having an air leak ( makes that cylinder run lean at low manifold pressures)
2)Exhaust system leaks confuse the O2 sensors
3) dirty/sticky injectors
4) uncontrolled EGR "leans" the mixture also, so sticking valve is more of a problem to lean burn times. And pressure drop across it is high when manifold vacuum is high
5) inlet air temp sensor giving erroneous readings
6) erroneous MAP readings
But I am curious if anyone has seen this associated with the IMA drive as mentioned in an earlier post. That is because my son associated the bucking starting on his to right after putting a new bumblebee battery in. And the IMA motor is definitely strong enough to give this effect.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
141 Posts
2000 mt insight with 260k mi.
My son has an identical one with 230k mi. Both had been exhibiting the bucking problem when the manifold pressure was low and it is in closed loop mode after initial warm up. Steady speed light throttle, typically 30 mph or so in 3rd gear. OBD2 traces showed his to have larger negative short term fuel trims than mine as it entered the bucking condition and his bucking was much worse than mine.
Tried swapping in new O2 sensors with little change.
Tested injectors on a bench test and all good. But did notice a crack in one of the seals between the head and the injector. Replaced and not much change, even though I could find the air leak when spraying carb cleaner at it before the change out, not after.
Had been through the EGR system before with no luck.
Tried the injector cleaner route and it seemed to help mine but not my son's.
The OBD results had me sure it was the fuel control system so tried swapping in older O2 sensors. No real change.
But noticed that the newer O2 sensors had not come with thread sealant/anti seize. And I had been tightening the O2 sensor without measuring. Turns out that they come off with much less torque than the book's quoted 33 ft lbs. Adding anti seize and significantly upping the install torque to the spec made a huge change in the bucking.
Next I'm going to look at the torque on the exhaust flange nuts on his. We'd changed the cats out a couple years ago and a leak there would cause the same mis read of the actual in cylinder air fuel ratio that the poorly sealed O2 sensor would. Fresh air gets sucked into the exhaust manifold as a negative pressure pulse comes from the valve overlap timing and the low inlet manifold pressure. The speed seems to low to have it be from the exhaust system waves. Though I'd have thought that this should have made the engine run richer than the computer was trying to run.
There are many sources of false readings for setting the AFR.
1) less than all of the injectors having an air leak ( makes that cylinder run lean at low manifold pressures)
2)Exhaust system leaks confuse the O2 sensors
3) dirty/sticky injectors
4) uncontrolled EGR "leans" the mixture also, so sticking valve is more of a problem to lean burn times. And pressure drop across it is high when manifold vacuum is high
5) inlet air temp sensor giving erroneous readings
6) erroneous MAP readings
But I am curious if anyone has seen this associated with the IMA drive as mentioned in an earlier post. That is because my son associated the bucking starting on his to right after putting a new bumblebee battery in. And the IMA motor is definitely strong enough to give this effect.
Have you tried a new EGR valve? I was at a junkyard and pulled one off an insight that looked like it had been recently put on. I could sell it to you cheap ($30 shipped). A month or two prior I bought the Accord EGR which completely solved my problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
So to paraphrase, it sounds like you're saying that you had a bucking/hesitation issue. Your pack went bad and you bypassed it - and the issue went away. It came back when you put a new pack in; ergo, maybe it's the IMA system? Is that right?

If so, I'd say it's entirely possible. When I experimented with Peter P.'s 'boost box', which intercepts and allows tweaking of the ECM's 'command power' signal, I got a lot of weird bucking, hesitation, and general IMA gobbledy-gook... So the IMA/electric motor is very capable of making the car 'buck' and 'hesitate'.

Ever had any moisture issues in your car? Maybe some of the ECM wiring, down in the passenger footwell, got damp? Just a wild guess though; if IMA-related, seems like it could be just about anything...
Whoops... guess I should check in more often. Here's your reply, only 2 years later:

Yes, you correctly paraphrased my situation. Thankfully I've never had moisture issues, and no other electrical issues other than a bad ground wire which was quickly replaced.

I just found it peculiar that (what I believe are) the classic hesitation/bucking issues went away with the disabled IMA and returned when it was again operational.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Mikec1701: will you check your throttle cable by the throttle body to see if it has slack? Mine did and after tightening bucking went away.
Thanks- I'll take a look. Honestly this doesn't bother me much, as I only experience it once every couple months on average.

It does seem like strange behavior, and it also looks like different folks have slight variations on it.
 
21 - 35 of 35 Posts
About this Discussion
34 Replies
18 Participants
eq1
Honda Insight Forum
We’re the ultimate Honda Insight forum to talk about Honda’s hybrid car and its fuel economy and specs!
Full Forum Listing
Top