Honda Insight Forum banner

21 - 40 of 56 Posts

·
Premium Member
Chicago & Detroit
Joined
·
832 Posts
Insight Clutch Kit

does anyone know if Amazon sells either a LUK or an Exedy clutch kit for our car? Amazon sells one manufactured by Southeast Clutch. Impressive web sight but I don't know the quality?? When doing a HCH1 trans swap can a HCH1 clutch kit be used with the Insight flywheel? Thanks for the help
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,016 Posts
Per my research I found
The insight's clutch disc is 190mm
HCH1 clutch disc is 219mm

So it might bolt up, but might wear weird with the extra 14.5mm around the edge.

I've also been curious if the HCH1 flywheel would bolt up and clear since that would negate the need of modifying the HCH1 main shaft.

Edit: If someone has their HCH1 flywheel for measuring I can compare it to the G1 flywheel to see if it would be a likely candidate. I figure the potential issue would be distance between the senor ring and the crank mounting surface .
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
460 Posts
I got a HCH flywheel with the transmission that will be swapped into one of my Insights. Let me know what measurements you would like. I do not know if it has been surfaced in the past, so the thickness at the clutch disc surface may not be the same as a new one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,016 Posts
The most critical measurements are on the back side in relation to the position of the sensor ring. Also if it's not too much trouble could you weigh the flywheel? :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
460 Posts
I dug the HCH flywheel out of the storage trailer and just yesterday got an Insight flywheel in a batch of parts. I will clean up both this weekend and measure/weigh them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
So if ring gear fits insight carrier thats half the swap. Now just interested if the hch countershaft fits an insight case with insight gears.
Be nice suring insight trans rebuild to just swap ring gear and countershaft instead of having to buy whole hch trans and modify the input shaft.
I wonder if the gear x lsd they came out with for the crv rear diff will fit an insight.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
570 Posts
Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
In the past week I have confirmed:

You can put an Insight ring and pinion (the countershaft) into an HCH Transmission.

The driver's side motor mount holes in the HCH transmission are M10 threaded just like an Insight transmission. Instead of buying M12 nuts and using the HCH motor mount studs, you can remove them and transfer the mounting studs from your Insight transmission instead.

HCH and Insight countershafts have different inner bore diameters. if you swap them, you must also change the countershaft oiler, or "Oil Guide" as Honda calls it.

HCH Oil Guide 21103-PLW-000
Insight Oil Guide 21103-PHR-000

Next week, I will be performing further science and putting an HCH final drive into an Insight transmission.

When I have the time in a few weeks, I will do a proper write-up with pictures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
Hm, what about an Insight final drive into a HCH1 gearbox and using that in the Insight?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
460 Posts
I finally got around to comparing the HCH and Insight flywheels. The major differences include:

-The distance of the pilot bearing (sometimes called the spigot) area face to the outer surface (non-machined area). This dimension is shorter on the Insight flywheel.
-The clutch disc mating surface areas.
-The IMA motor hub locating pin holes.
-The pressure plate bolt and locating pin circles.
-The HCH flywheel is about two pounds lighter, surprisingly. (I do not know if either of these flywheels have been surfaced in the past.)
-The bolts holding the sensor ring to the HCH flywheel are lighter than those on the Insight.

The distance from the surface that mates with the IMA motor hub to the commutation sensor ring surface, as well as the outer ridges of the sensor ring, is the same (to the resolution of my caliper).

To use a HCH flywheel in an Insight would involve some work, if it is even possible. A new IMA motor hub locating pin hole would have to be drilled and the HCH clutch kit would have to be used (not sure how/if the hydraulic pressure of the Insight master and slave cylinders compares to the HCH to operate the flex plate). I do not know what the weight difference is between the HCH and Insight clutch kits.

An untested option would be to press the pilot bearing further into the Insight flywheel to clear the shoulder of the HCH input shaft. There appears to be enough depth in the Insight flywheel to do this but I do not know if anyone has tried it.

To me, it makes sense to machine the shoulder of the input shaft from the HCH transmission to fit the Insight flywheel with the pilot bearing in its OEM location. It appears that there is an opportunity to lighten the Insight flywheel by a few pounds since the HCH flywheel is lighter and can handle the increased power of the HCH 4 cylinder engine.

I had a HCH swap done by Scott and company at Jue Motors about two months ago. I am very happy with it and will do a writeup of that in another post.

82727
trans1.jpg
INS.jpg
82729
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,016 Posts
Nice work! The pilot bearing can't be pressed in far enough on the stock flywheel to make enough clearance, ask me how I know lol. The master cylinder and slave are the same size between the 1G and the HCH, so there shouldn't be any worries for clutch pressure. Is the crank locating pin further out from the center compared to stock? I wasn't exactly sure what you meant about them being different. Nice to know it's 2lbs lighter, I'm sure the clutch is heavier since it's bigger. I'm running my flywheel lightened by 2.5lbs and haven't had a single problem since.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
460 Posts
Good to know someone has tested relocating the pilot bearing, even if it does not work.

The locating pin hole on the HCH flywheel is further from the center than the one the Insight flywheel. The locations are shown by the two red arrows in one of the pictures above.

I would also add that in my pictures of the Insight flywheel, the pilot bearing sits proud of the surface. The drawings in the FSM do not show the bearing in enough detail to know if it is supposed to sit high like this or flush with the surface in this area. I also was not paying close enough attention when we reinstalled the freshly-surfaced flywheel with the new pilot bearing in my car during the transmission swap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,016 Posts
Ah ok, so it would need a new one drilled like you said. To figure out the actual difference in pilot bearing clearance from the mainshaft you should measure back of mounting surface on the flywheel to the bottom of the pilot bearing. The flywheel surface that mates up to the clutch can vary and not be a problem. There's a lot more clearance for something like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Question about the calculation of speed differences for the different VSS's. Are those values added to the 2% difference thats already there from running 165/65/14 tires? Or has that already been factored in?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
2% difference as compared to what? I'm confused. The VSS percentages are independent of tire size.

The road speeds I give as examples along side are based on running OEM 165/65 R18 size tires.
Sorry, nevermind, I am overthinking this ??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
In my opinion with price of a hch trans and its unknown state when you get it. Doing the hch countershaft and ring gear in the insight casexand doing a full rebuild is best bet and route I will choose if it fits.
 

·
Registered
2001 Honda Insight
Joined
·
32 Posts
Hi y'all, I was sent here from another thread. I'm building a 2001 Insight into an endurance race car and would like to put the best trans into it for racing I can build. I have no problem splitting the cases and/or pulling multiple transmissions from multiple cars. I am very mechanically inclined and will likely rebuild whatever trans I get anyway. After reviewing everything I could find to read, it sounds like getting a HCH transmission, and swapping the final drive from a Fit, would yield the best results for my application. It appears that I'll also need to either adapt the clutch & flywheel from the HCH to the Insight, or machine down the pilot on the input shaft of the HCH trans. I have access to a lathe & mill so no issues there. I am running the car with all hybrid components removed, the engine running on a Megasquirt standalone ECU, a Geo Metro alternator mounted in place of the AC unit, and the IMA motor has been cut down to just the central hub (balanced at the local crankshaft shop). Any advice for me is greatly appreciated. I will likely be heading to the local junkyards this week to start pulling transmissions. Where does everyone get their rebuild parts (bearings, syncros, etc)?
 

·
Premium Member
2001 5S "Turbo"
Joined
·
10,560 Posts
Please include your Location in your Profile. Thank You.
I would like to see a photo of your alternator set up.
 
21 - 40 of 56 Posts
Top