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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering if anyone has measured the space where the rubber is in our front control arms. I tried searching, but only found the member who had pillow ball mounts made.
 

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The outer bushing shell measures 64.3-64.4mm diameter by 30mm height. The inner bushing shank measures 49.75mm in height. I just recently made a set of polyurethane bushings that press fit into the stock bushing outer shell (57.75mm) and retain the stock LCA bushing shank. My drivers side LCA rubber had completely separated from the outer shell. I've got around 500 miles on this new setup and it has been working well. Sorry but I didn't measure the front bushing, I may replace that with polyurethane one as well and it should be able to be cross sourced from another Honda application from the looks of it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YqZRBvYR3kYJQ1TazEqOTB39Poc5kmas/view?usp=sharing
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oo nice thanks man! Can you tell me where did you get the bushing? Or block of poly to make the bushing? I really want to change mine since although I can't see any major cracks they're so soft that I can see the toe change when I tq my lug nuts.
 

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Oo nice thanks man! Can you tell me where did you get the bushing? Or block of poly to make the bushing?
Keep in mind when I did this it was a "first attempt" or temporary fix, I had the common "squeak" when first starting out driving the car so I jacked it up thinking I was just going to lube the stock bushings. Once I unbolted and found that the rubber had completely separated from the outer bushing steel shell I went to work finding something that could possibly fit. I also own a Honda FIT GD3 and had thought the whiteline bushings for that car would work but they are slightly undersized... the bushings I ended up finding are supposedly discontinued but I was able to buy 4 direct from the company though ebay. Here is a link https://www.ebay.com/itm/292071219645 I cut them down on the smaller non "hat" side so that when 2 were pressed in the hat seated on the steel 30mm original bushing shell that was still pressed into the arm. I then bought 2 washers per arm that sit on top of the hat portion (one above one below) that take up the space left when pressing in the stock bushing shank (this keeps the arm centered just like stock). I also drilled 6 holes through the bushing, 3 on each side and lined those up when pressing them into the arm to give flex in the direction the arm needs in its travel (look up the whiteline ones here Front Control Arm Bushings - Honda Fit - W53376 to get an idea). Last I thought I would have to shim under the hat between the bushing and the stock outer sleeve and even made them but with the shank pressed in the fit of the bushing to outer sleeve didn't need them a shim so lucked out there!
I don't know that I'd go doing this to a set of good arms because I'm unsure of the longevity of this setup. In my searching for a solution (and after I had ordered these already) I think the best long term solution is a poly/spherical joint but would require a custom machined outer sleeve to be pressed into the arm. I'll probably end up getting these made in the next 6 months or so... these would work just like the ones you were referring to that kingpin made "one-off" for a member here that you are probably talking about, the poly/spherical version would be rebuildable with off the shelf replacement parts cheaply though and slightly better in NVH than those IMO. :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the info. I am pretty sure my arms are original and with 250k on the clock it is no surprise they are squishy.

So to make sure I understand, to make it physically fit you just remove the hat portion and were able to press in the pushing into the stock sleeve and shank?
 

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I know you can get reproduction lower arms complete with bushings for about $100 each.

On the topic of making things better than stock, what about something like a johnny joint pressed into the arm? I think they make them in small enough sizes. Sort of like a spherical bearing but with a poly center.
 

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So to make sure I understand, to make it physically fit you just remove the hat portion and were able to press in the pushing into the stock sleeve and shank?
No and yes, I have attached pictures of the 2 bushings I have yet to cut down to size. I used a caliper at 14 mm and ran a line around them, hopefully you can make that out on the picture. With both bushings cut to this height there will be 2mm of air gap between them to help with suspension movement along with the 6 holes drilled into each bushing, the now cut down hat portion of the busing is what you will be pressing into the arm. Yes stock bushing outer sleeve is still pressed into the arm, yes stock shank needs to be cleaned of rubber and pressed into the new poly bushings, last is 1 spacer on either end of the shank to sit flush with the shank height and keeps the arm centered vertically when everything is assembled.


On the topic of making things better than stock, what about something like a johnny joint pressed into the arm? I think they make them in small enough sizes. Sort of like a spherical bearing but with a poly center.
The currie 2" narrow johnny joint is the exact one I plan to use, I looked up every option and this is the only one that when pressed into the arm will allow full arm flex as it is 1.5-2mm wider than the 30mm height of the stock bushing. I asked about getting a new outer shell machined but they would not do that even for added cost, I offered to buy multiple so I could offer them to forum members but still no go. I will have those made up and test them, if all goes well I will have more made to offer up.

https://www.currieenterprises.com/CE-9112NP-12
 

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Coo got it.
I should have mentioned how I cut the poly bushing, I pressed in the shank and ran an exact size bolt I had in the garage through it and a nut to lock it down. I chucked it up in a drill press and set the vise as a cut guide to the line, I then used a hack saw blade against the the top of the open vice, hillbilly lathe style but it came out just as good of a cut!:chainsaw: You could probably get this done at a machine shop for next to nothing though I would think?

Sorry the last picture is so dark but you can sort of make out how it all works when installed. This is the bottom bushing in the arm with one of the steel washers over the shank, the top side of the arm is setup exactly the same with another of the same washer. I had to drill the washers out and they are a press fit to the shank. When assembling it is a major PITA to make sure they don't come off the shank when tightening up the arm as the bushings will want to force them off because of the angle it is at when unloaded, to combat this I used a jack under the tire and tried to have the arm angle at its lest resistance from the bushing-to-bolt angle which helped get it all back together.

So far there has been zero downside to these over the stock setup (keep in mind my bushing was shot) No added NVH on this 18 year old car that I can tell.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the advice. Just ordered the bushing.

If they are noisy I doubt I would really notice, these cars are pretty dang noisy in general.
 

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Thanks for the advice. Just ordered the bushing.

If they are noisy I doubt I would really notice, these cars are pretty dang noisy in general.
Some more advice is take indirect heat to the stock bushing, the rubber will become brittle and basically fall away by touching it with a screw driver. Go to harbor freight and get a scotch-brite looking ball that you can put on a hand held power drill, this will clean up the outer bushing steel sleeves inner surface. I took the inner shank to a bench wire wheel on a bolt and it cleaned up easily, the inner shank is aluminum BTW. When you get one of the bushings in pack the 2mm air gap full of grease then press the other bushing in this should keep them quiet for a good while. I've done a master poly bushing kit, (every single bushing on the car) on a car I had and the squeaks drove me mad to the point of selling it. Luckily these don't see movement in the same way so should stay silent for a long long time...

I would recommend the 6 holes per bushing to aid in flex. I put them on the center shank like they would be pressed into the arm and drilled though both at the same time so they were in perfect alignment. I used a tapered bit to enlarge the holes at the hat sides of the bushing to aid in flex, like a chamfered edge (maybe 1/4" down?).

The insight may be loud to you but it is the quietest thing I've ever owned so I plan to keep it that way (100mi commute). My FIT is supercharged and my motorcycle is a motorcycle... haha
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Not yet, I've been out of town for the past couple weeks. I did get the bushings in the mail, just haven't had time to install them yet.
 

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Not yet, I've been out of town for the past couple weeks. I did get the bushings in the mail, just haven't had time to install them yet.
Update when you get them in and if you feel any steering/handling improvement. I thought I was going to be quickly replacing these with the poly/heim joint setup but they are doing well and the rear torsion beam bushings are now at the TOP of my list, the rear end of the car is all over the place from cross wind on the highway or spirited cornering at speed making for a white knuckle ride. I know Tryingbe did the poly bushings and has the dimensions all worked out but I think I will be sourcing poly/heim joints for these as well as they should be better suited for the torsion beam movement than a solid bushing. After that I'll get back to focusing on making a rear sway bar that I've already designed, just need to make the bracket that will bolt to the spring bucket and bend a chromoly hollow tube up.

Have you also seen the front poly sway bar bushings I made up? They are a slight improvement on their own, depending on how handy you are it may be worthwhile to you to make a set as well. These LCA poly bushings essentially raise the front spring rate as they have a higher resistance to flex out of their shape at rest compared to stock, combined with the sway bar bushings it is a noticeable improvement at the front end. I run the Scott's springs the adjustable GAZ dampers at the rear, while it is an improvement those rear bushings show just how terrible they are so can't judge how stiff on the sway bar I need to go until I get those sorted.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wouldn't the heim joints be a little too noisy on the rear torsion beam?

I'm also curious on adding a watts link for the rear suspension like they did on the Cruze sporty trim model.
 

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Wouldn't the heim joints be a little too noisy on the rear torsion beam?
Don't think so as they were specifically designed for this type of movement in suspension design, I'm talking the same Currie "Johnny Joint" style heim as I will use in the LCA. They are used in 3 and 4 link off road suspension arms etc... I will be sure to incorporate the grease port when I press in the shell into the torsion beam or convert the bolt to a grease type to keep the ball/poly well lubricated.

Can you link to the watts setup in detail? I have a Progress rear sway bar on the FIT and it too is a torsion beam so this is what I based the design off of, that one is non adjustable but the one I plan to make will be adjustable and follow the torsion beam from spring bucket to spring bucket.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm talking the same Currie "Johnny Joint" style heim as I will use in the LCA.
Oh nice, do you have a lathe to make sleeves or something to make it so that the tolerances are really tight? Sorry my experience with these kind of joints are limited. I put some on my Celica, but I ended up getting a friend to make better sleeves since there was too much play between the pillow ball and the sleeve/cone around the bolt.

Can you link to the watts setup in detail? I have a Progress rear sway bar on the FIT and it too is a torsion beam so this is what I based the design off of, that one is non adjustable but the one I plan to make will be adjustable and follow the torsion beam from spring bucket to spring bucket.
Here's the link I started when I first found out about them
http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/107881-z-link-watts-link.html

They look relatively easy to retrofit to our 1Gs by making new brackets to bolt through the chassis rail that the spring perch pushes on.

Here's some photos




I've talked to a couple race car builders and they say watts links are unnecessary. But I like the idea that you can tune the roll center a bit if you make the center pivot point adjustable in height.
 

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Oh nice, do you have a lathe to make sleeves or something to make it so that the tolerances are really tight? Sorry my experience with these kind of joints are limited. I put some on my Celica, but I ended up getting a friend to make better sleeves since there was too much play between the pillow ball and the sleeve/cone around the bolt.
No lathe but may have a friend who can use his at work, there are also a few machine shops I can have modify the shell/pivot ball shank to spec. I figured already that this is what will have to be done when sourcing from an off road American i.e. imperial dimensions to metric fitment, buy bigger (or smaller in the case of the shank hole dia.) and machine to required size.


Here's the link I started when I first found out about them
http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/modifications-technical-issues/107881-z-link-watts-link.html

They look relatively easy to retrofit to our 1Gs by making new brackets to bolt through the chassis rail that the spring perch pushes on.

I've talked to a couple race car builders and they say watts links are unnecessary. But I like the idea that you can tune the roll center a bit if you make the center pivot point adjustable in height.
Looks interesting, maybe to much added weight to accomplish roughly the same as the sway bar though.
Here is the Progress bar on a CRZ.
Our rear beam isn't nearly as beefy as that one or the FIT has. You can see how it follows the beam and stays out of the way and isn't overly complicated, the only thing is mine will not have the spring bucket mount welded to the bar but allow you to slide it closer to the bucket upping the torsional spring rate. The spring bucket mounts will be aluminum, the bar will be a large (somewhere between 7/8" to 1") diameter hollow chromoly to keep down the weight as apposed to a solid smaller diameter bar. At least this is the plan so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Looks interesting, maybe to much added weight to accomplish roughly the same as the sway bar though.
A watts link doesn't act like a sway bar. It's not a spring, it's a method to locating the rear axle. Say you go through a hard corner and the bushings start to compress, you'll get a change in toe in/out on the rear wheels, basically thrust angle gets thrown off. The Watt's link keeps that from happening. My lack of sleep made me misread your previous post. When you said progressive bar I was thinking pan hard bar. As that is the other main method in keeping the rear axle located laterally. Like the first of the CRX's that had beam axles had a panhard bar to keep the rear from shifting around under cornering.
 
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