I was wondering if anyone has measured the space where the rubber is in our front control arms. I tried searching, but only found the member who had pillow ball mounts made.
Keep in mind when I did this it was a "first attempt" or temporary fix, I had the common "squeak" when first starting out driving the car so I jacked it up thinking I was just going to lube the stock bushings. Once I unbolted and found that the rubber had completely separated from the outer bushing steel shell I went to work finding something that could possibly fit. I also own a Honda FIT GD3 and had thought the whiteline bushings for that car would work but they are slightly undersized... the bushings I ended up finding are supposedly discontinued but I was able to buy 4 direct from the company though ebay. Here is a link https://www.ebay.com/itm/292071219645 I cut them down on the smaller non "hat" side so that when 2 were pressed in the hat seated on the steel 30mm original bushing shell that was still pressed into the arm. I then bought 2 washers per arm that sit on top of the hat portion (one above one below) that take up the space left when pressing in the stock bushing shank (this keeps the arm centered just like stock). I also drilled 6 holes through the bushing, 3 on each side and lined those up when pressing them into the arm to give flex in the direction the arm needs in its travel (look up the whiteline ones here Front Control Arm Bushings - Honda Fit - W53376 to get an idea). Last I thought I would have to shim under the hat between the bushing and the stock outer sleeve and even made them but with the shank pressed in the fit of the bushing to outer sleeve didn't need them a shim so lucked out there!Oo nice thanks man! Can you tell me where did you get the bushing? Or block of poly to make the bushing?
No and yes, I have attached pictures of the 2 bushings I have yet to cut down to size. I used a caliper at 14 mm and ran a line around them, hopefully you can make that out on the picture. With both bushings cut to this height there will be 2mm of air gap between them to help with suspension movement along with the 6 holes drilled into each bushing, the now cut down hat portion of the busing is what you will be pressing into the arm. Yes stock bushing outer sleeve is still pressed into the arm, yes stock shank needs to be cleaned of rubber and pressed into the new poly bushings, last is 1 spacer on either end of the shank to sit flush with the shank height and keeps the arm centered vertically when everything is assembled.So to make sure I understand, to make it physically fit you just remove the hat portion and were able to press in the pushing into the stock sleeve and shank?
The currie 2" narrow johnny joint is the exact one I plan to use, I looked up every option and this is the only one that when pressed into the arm will allow full arm flex as it is 1.5-2mm wider than the 30mm height of the stock bushing. I asked about getting a new outer shell machined but they would not do that even for added cost, I offered to buy multiple so I could offer them to forum members but still no go. I will have those made up and test them, if all goes well I will have more made to offer up.On the topic of making things better than stock, what about something like a johnny joint pressed into the arm? I think they make them in small enough sizes. Sort of like a spherical bearing but with a poly center.
I should have mentioned how I cut the poly bushing, I pressed in the shank and ran an exact size bolt I had in the garage through it and a nut to lock it down. I chucked it up in a drill press and set the vise as a cut guide to the line, I then used a hack saw blade against the the top of the open vice, hillbilly lathe style but it came out just as good of a cut!:chainsaw: You could probably get this done at a machine shop for next to nothing though I would think?Coo got it.
Some more advice is take indirect heat to the stock bushing, the rubber will become brittle and basically fall away by touching it with a screw driver. Go to harbor freight and get a scotch-brite looking ball that you can put on a hand held power drill, this will clean up the outer bushing steel sleeves inner surface. I took the inner shank to a bench wire wheel on a bolt and it cleaned up easily, the inner shank is aluminum BTW. When you get one of the bushings in pack the 2mm air gap full of grease then press the other bushing in this should keep them quiet for a good while. I've done a master poly bushing kit, (every single bushing on the car) on a car I had and the squeaks drove me mad to the point of selling it. Luckily these don't see movement in the same way so should stay silent for a long long time...Thanks for the advice. Just ordered the bushing.
If they are noisy I doubt I would really notice, these cars are pretty dang noisy in general.
Update when you get them in and if you feel any steering/handling improvement. I thought I was going to be quickly replacing these with the poly/heim joint setup but they are doing well and the rear torsion beam bushings are now at the TOP of my list, the rear end of the car is all over the place from cross wind on the highway or spirited cornering at speed making for a white knuckle ride. I know Tryingbe did the poly bushings and has the dimensions all worked out but I think I will be sourcing poly/heim joints for these as well as they should be better suited for the torsion beam movement than a solid bushing. After that I'll get back to focusing on making a rear sway bar that I've already designed, just need to make the bracket that will bolt to the spring bucket and bend a chromoly hollow tube up.Not yet, I've been out of town for the past couple weeks. I did get the bushings in the mail, just haven't had time to install them yet.
Don't think so as they were specifically designed for this type of movement in suspension design, I'm talking the same Currie "Johnny Joint" style heim as I will use in the LCA. They are used in 3 and 4 link off road suspension arms etc... I will be sure to incorporate the grease port when I press in the shell into the torsion beam or convert the bolt to a grease type to keep the ball/poly well lubricated.Wouldn't the heim joints be a little too noisy on the rear torsion beam?
Oh nice, do you have a lathe to make sleeves or something to make it so that the tolerances are really tight? Sorry my experience with these kind of joints are limited. I put some on my Celica, but I ended up getting a friend to make better sleeves since there was too much play between the pillow ball and the sleeve/cone around the bolt.I'm talking the same Currie "Johnny Joint" style heim as I will use in the LCA.
Here's the link I started when I first found out about themCan you link to the watts setup in detail? I have a Progress rear sway bar on the FIT and it too is a torsion beam so this is what I based the design off of, that one is non adjustable but the one I plan to make will be adjustable and follow the torsion beam from spring bucket to spring bucket.
No lathe but may have a friend who can use his at work, there are also a few machine shops I can have modify the shell/pivot ball shank to spec. I figured already that this is what will have to be done when sourcing from an off road American i.e. imperial dimensions to metric fitment, buy bigger (or smaller in the case of the shank hole dia.) and machine to required size.Oh nice, do you have a lathe to make sleeves or something to make it so that the tolerances are really tight? Sorry my experience with these kind of joints are limited. I put some on my Celica, but I ended up getting a friend to make better sleeves since there was too much play between the pillow ball and the sleeve/cone around the bolt.
Looks interesting, maybe to much added weight to accomplish roughly the same as the sway bar though.Here's the link I started when I first found out about them
They look relatively easy to retrofit to our 1Gs by making new brackets to bolt through the chassis rail that the spring perch pushes on.
I've talked to a couple race car builders and they say watts links are unnecessary. But I like the idea that you can tune the roll center a bit if you make the center pivot point adjustable in height.
A watts link doesn't act like a sway bar. It's not a spring, it's a method to locating the rear axle. Say you go through a hard corner and the bushings start to compress, you'll get a change in toe in/out on the rear wheels, basically thrust angle gets thrown off. The Watt's link keeps that from happening. My lack of sleep made me misread your previous post. When you said progressive bar I was thinking pan hard bar. As that is the other main method in keeping the rear axle located laterally. Like the first of the CRX's that had beam axles had a panhard bar to keep the rear from shifting around under cornering.Looks interesting, maybe to much added weight to accomplish roughly the same as the sway bar though.