[Guest]

Hi All:

___Given the Insight has even better emissions in California and its neighboring states as well as some of the North Eastern portions of the US, is it just the low sulfur fuel that achieves the better results or is their a difference between the engines and Cat’s available from the different areas?

• 00 Insight 5-speed California and Clean states: 12.3 – 12.9 #’s of smog forming emissions/15K miles[/*:m:8p0np5kb]
• 00 Insight 5-speed most other states besides California: 7.9 – 11.8 #’s of smog forming emissions/15K miles[/*:m:8p0np5kb]

___This is common among many vehicles but the EPA is very vague as to how the lower emissions are achieved. Is it only because of the LS fuel available or is their also enhanced emission HW able to take advantage of California’s and other states LS fuel?

___I have been reading up on the attributes of many automobiles on the EPA Green Vehicle Guide over the last year or two but have never read exactly why the differences between California and most everywhere else. It would seem to be an expensive proposition to equip just California vehicles with HW not available in any other state is all.

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:8p0np5kb][email protected][/email:8p0np5kb]

 

[Tim Maddux]

Wayne, try digging here. Those Eastern states that are blue (or white) like CA have adopted CA's air-quality testing standards/rules, while others have not, and while I was pretty sure the only difference was the fuel I'm not so sure after reading these links:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer.htm#CrossborderSales

 

[Braxus]

From what I understand, California also requires gas sold in the state to have additives and detergents added in order for it to burn cleaner.

 

[Armin]

the Insight has even better emissions in California and its neighboring states as well as some of the North Eastern portions of the US

Wayne,

the car's emissions don't depend on it's location. The only reason the EPA lists it that way is that CA and some other states have the ULEV rating and others don't. The numbers that website are not actual emissions measured, but just the ranges for the emissions classification. It's ULEV in CA but only LEV in states that don't have a ULEV rating. A ULEV car produces this many pounds of pollutants and a LEV car that many. Nothing to do with the Insight.

And no, it's not the low-sulfur gas. The Insight is ULEV here in MA, but there is no low-sulfur gas here.

Some other cars actually have different emissions systems when sold in states that require them. For those cars this site makes sense. The Insight is the same no matter where you buy it. So this site doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[ecogrl]

I'm curious about similar issues:

Am I allowed to drive in the car pool lane when in California with my Insight?

I use premium gasoline because I was under the impression it's better for my car and the environment as well. Is my impression accurate?

 

[dazey]

I'm curious about similar issues:

Am I allowed to drive in the car pool lane when in California with my Insight?

I use premium gasoline because I was under the impression it's better for my car and the environment as well. Is my impression accurate?

Yes and no, you can if there are 2 occupants, even in lanes that require 3. But, in California, the vehicle can't use gasoline at all if you want to drive in a carpool lane by yourself. :?

At first I found this rather annoying, but with the number of hybrids in the area I can understand why, we would just clog up the lanes. I see so many original Prii that I hardly look for them, and I see at least one '04 Prius a day now, and the occasional HCHs and Insights.

As far as the gas, I use Regular from 76 since they do not use MTBE and the manual says to just use regular (that and regular is about $1.79 right now.)

 

[Tim Maddux]

No carpool lane sticker for hybrids:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/faq.htm

"... in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner."
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm

I have done extensive tank-by-tank tests on flat highway between Ventura, CA and Santa Barbara, CA and found no difference in MPG or performance between regular and premium gasoline. Others on the Yahoo! forums did dyno tests and found (IIRC) no improvement in vehicle power output.

I don't agree with Armin about the ratings. ULEV was created in California but was adopted by the Feds as part of the "Tier 2" standards which were voluntary in 2001 and are rolling in mandatory starting this year.

 

[ecogrl]

"... in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner."
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm

I have done extensive tank-by-tank tests on flat highway between Ventura, CA and Santa Barbara, CA and found no difference in MPG or performance between regular and premium gasoline. Others on the Yahoo! forums did dyno tests and found (IIRC) no improvement in vehicle power output.

Okay, so it doesn't make the car perform any better. But I'm more interested in preventing excess wear and tear and in polluting less.

I read your references - both - and they make sense. But it still bugs me that an SUV with 2 people can drive in the car pool lane while I can't by myself, even though I'm polluting far less per person. And it bugs me that premium gas doesn't reduced emissions or engine build-up like they claim it does.

 

[SeanW]

But it still bugs me that an SUV with 2 people can drive in the car pool lane while I can't by myself, even though I'm polluting far less per person.

I always understood that the carpool lanes were to reduce congestion not pollution. If the other person in the SUV left his SUV at home that day both congestion and pollution drop. Find an SUV driver to ride with you and you can contribute to reducing both as well! 8)

 

[Tim Maddux]

I always understood that the carpool lanes were to reduce congestion not pollution.

Yes, however EVs and some other vehicles that do not run on gasoline can get HOV access with only one person in the car. So there is a bit of a pollution consideration. Just not for the Insight -- there are SULEV SUV's out there as well.