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Discussion Starter #1
Saturday my check engine light came on. Wednesday, several trips and about 460 miles later, it went off. Should it have gone off by itself, or stayed on till being reset? Is it a good sign that it went off, maybe just a loose gas cap? I'm getting it checked Friday, but am a little worried since it came on before and was the cat. Cat wasn't replaced, but Honda said if the light came on again for the cat, it would need replacing.
 

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The only accurate answer is it depends.

Uncle Sam has defined each codes parameters for all manufacturers.

Some require 2 "trips" to set the MIL. And will self clear the MIL (but remain in memory) after 2 "clean" trips. Its the loose gas cap code I referr to here.

Others will not self clear the MIL under any conditions. Cylinder misfire codes come to mind and there are others.

A P0420 (bad CAT) is one that will come and go as the CAT approaches its end of service life. Its possible you may still have a few more weeks before the light stays on if its the CAT.

And it also appears you've had a good loong run since your first question on this topic.(checkout the post dates)


http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=2493

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Insightful Trekker said:
And it also appears you've had a good loong run since your first question on this topic.(checkout the post dates)


http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... php?t=2493

HTH! :)
Not long enough, if it is the cat :( Sorry, I completely forgot the light had gone out by itself before. But that was almost a year ago. I'm lucky if I can remember yesterday :!: I even did a search before posting, obviously not a comprehensive enough search :oops:
 

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A bad CAT and the related cost of repair is one most people _want_ to forget. ;)

Sorry for the reminder.

But since your Insight is now paid for (Aug :?: ) by my math your cash flow has just about increased enough to pay for the repair if needed. Hope you saved most of it. :)

HTH! :)
 

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Troubleshoot

Bfive,
Troubleshoot FIRST...
Cat convertors are not routine replacement items. Lots of cars go 100's of thousand miles with out touching the Cat.

Follow Getshocked.ca 's sad story. Ignore the childish bickering and skip to the technical parts.
The multiple O2 sensors feed the ECM and it show's the code when some threshold in values is reached.
Honda dealer mech's follow the rule book that says 'bad cat code=change the cat'.
" $2000+ Please ", "Thanks, better luck next time."
These O2 sensors could be out of tolerance/going bad.

Keep resetting the light and find a pattern. Find an independent shop that takes pride in their troubleshooting skills like Getshocked did.

The worse that can happen is the cat may eventually go bad for real by creating back pressure ( which the O2 sensors can't detect ). But you will see that coming easily in your MPG and then lower full throttle power.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 

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Can anyone tell me the odds of a "goodwill" warranty on a 01' Insight for the cat? The light came on twice before 80K miles, and now I'm a little over 80k, and the light is back on -- solid. I hate to think they wouldn't count this.

Anyone got any ideaS?
 

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Re: Troubleshoot

Just an FYI and technical clarification as to how the system works. ;)

There are up to three O2 sensors in an Insight. The primary is an "unusual" type called a LAF (linear Air / Fuel) in that its output is a "flat" voltage vs. O2 content compared to a "standard" type with a sinusoidal output (voltage constantly sweeping). Its this primary sensor that requires a different test, again vs. the standard type. And it is the only one of the 3 that has "control" over the fuel mixture. The secondary or tertiary O2 sensors only "wake-up" when the CAT doesn't properly "scrub" the exhaust stream.

As far as pressure these sensors can only detect the difference in O2 content between ambient and the exhaust stream. It is true that catastrophic CAT failures are commonly caused by an engine misfire and are sometimes due to bad O2 sensor data being sent to the ECM causing the misfire. This will ultimately melt the CAT to a solid plug of clay in the pipe, causing abnormal pressures and engine stalling due to the inability to "flow". If you don't ignore a misfire symptom you can usually save the CAT :!: :D

"Severe" misfires require immediate attention :!: (towing)

But the most common failure is related to the CAT's ability to "scrub" and won't result in a meltdown.


HappyCamper your "odds" of goodwill are zero until you ask. ;) If the dealer says no, don't take offense, it's just how the _stupid_ system works. You'll need to call Honda customer relations next, _after_ asking the dealer (its how this game is played :( )

IMO at just over 80K there's good reason for hope :!: :D

HTH! :)
 

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Not legally.

Nor would it allow further CAT function which is required to keep the MIL (check engine light) and the resulting P0420 off.

If you ever get the chance to look at one its simply a very fine honeycomb ceramic substrate coated / mixed with a gold / palladium alloy (the NOX types have different catalyist alloys) Its these alloys that react with CO's (Carbon monoxide), HC's (hydrocarbons, basically incomplete fuel combustion) and NoX's (nitrogen oxides, a major acid rain contributor) to significantly reduce them in the exhaust stream by chemical change.

HTH! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Was code P0420: "Catalyst system efficiency below threshold", but they performed a test and it passed, so no new cat. And yes John, I have been saving the money, but I'm hoping to spend it on MIMA :wink:
 

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LOL :lol:

OK, but I still think I've got you :!: ;)

$400 +- / month since August of this year = MIMA already installed :!: :D :?:

Or are you also saving for the inveviable IMA battery replacement. Mike put that MIMA order back on hold :!: :p

<in fun and jest>
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Insightful Trekker said:
LOL :lol:

OK, but I still think I've got you :!: ;)

$400 +- / month since August of this year = MIMA already installed :!: :D :?:

Or are you also saving for the inveviable IMA battery replacement. Mike put that MIMA order back on hold :!: :p

<in fun and jest>
$400 a month sounds good, except that most of it is spent on other bills as soon as the money comes in. MIMA would have been installed already had I made the decision that I wanted it months ago instead of weeks ago. I'm not sure the IMA replacement is inevitable. At the rate I'm putting on mileage, and at this point with 119,000 miles, the batteries seem as strong as ever and my MPG continues to improve, the car may die before the IMA does :!: If the IMA does die, all I can say is: come on Sirius stock, keep going up :wink:
 

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If you are going to check your 02 sensors, here is what a bad 02 sensor looks like and what a good one looks like

Bad




good


I am now on my third cat in the life of the car, I had the check engine light go on and off like you describe with the cat deterieration code. The problem was the 02 sensor was stuck in lean causing the car to run rich and burn alot more gas
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well, the "check engine" light came on again, actually twice in the last three weeks. Was at Honda this morning and I'll be getting a new cat as soon as it comes in. Price is $1120. Not as bad as it could have been, but still bad enough.
 
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