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I recently acquired an insight with the ima light on from a mechanic. He replaced the battery pack with a "refreshed" battery (not too sure what he means by that, he talked connecting something to the battery pack) and load tested before and it showed 400 volts before he put it in and then after he replaced the battery pack it had discharged somewhere and he didn't know where. I'm a novice mechanic, not an electrician by any means, but he believes there is just a bad cell in the battery pack and once its replaced it should be alright. He was pretty into insights and had grid chargers and other electrical parts that got ruined in a flood ( the car was being kept elsewhere) which in turn is why I got the vehicle - he was tired of messing with them especially after losing most of his extra parts.

Now for the real question! Is it worth testing the cells on this "refreshed" battery pack or could there be something draining the battery pack? I was researching the arduino ima bypass and it really seems like the easier option in this situation, but I guess I was hoping some people on the forums had some more insight on the easy way to get my Citrus running without an electrical headache.
 

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Please include your Location in your Profile, as ALL G1 Insighters have done.
Thank You.
400V? what battery did he install?
 

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But................a "refreshed" battery at 400V?
 

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I recently acquired an insight with the ima light on from a mechanic. He replaced the battery pack with a "refreshed" battery (not too sure what he means by that, he talked connecting something to the battery pack) and load tested before and it showed 400 volts before he put it in and then after he replaced the battery pack it had discharged somewhere and he didn't know where. I'm a novice mechanic, not an electrician by any means, but he believes there is just a bad cell in the battery pack and once its replaced it should be alright. He was pretty into insights and had grid chargers and other electrical parts that got ruined in a flood ( the car was being kept elsewhere) which in turn is why I got the vehicle - he was tired of messing with them especially after losing most of his extra parts.

Call BumbleBee. They will advise you. They are great folks. I bought a pair of upgrade packs from them. Send shipping boxes and every thing. Goigle them.

Now for the real question! Is it worth testing the cells on this "refreshed" battery pack or could there be something draining the battery pack? I was researching the arduino ima bypass and it really seems like the easier option in this situation, but I guess I was hoping some people on the forums had some more insight on the easy way to get my Citrus running without an electrical headache.
 

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Both mine had bad packs when I bought them. Tried a grid charger but no good. If it's showing check engine and IMA faults, it's a bad pack. If you plan to keep it bite the billet and replace it. OR there is a guy in florida that will swap it out with a K20 Civic Si engine./transmission dash I'm drooling over that. He calls it his corvette killer package.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Both mine had bad packs when I bought them. Tried a grid charger but no good. If it's showing check engine and IMA faults, it's a bad pack. If you plan to keep it bite the billet and replace it. OR there is a guy in florida that will swap it out with a K20 Civic Si engine./transmission dash I'm drooling over that. He calls it his corvette killer package.
I'll slowly acquire k24 parts to end up with a full swap 😎 but that's pretty far down the road.
 

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you have never heard of bumble-bee? very pleased with how they do.. not sure what you are talking about. possible you have the wrong person.
 

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BrianB:
Natalya is probably directing her comment to the OP. (Original Poster)
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Whoever you bought it from was mistaken, as the OEM battery is usually referred to as 144V and when recharging while braking it only (temporarily) goes up to about 180V.

Can you get the CEL code(s) if any?
I reset the codes and before starting the car it only threw 69, after starting the car it throws 41, 65, and 69. I thought 41 was P1439 but I do not have a catalytic converter at the moment and 41 also is associated with A/F ratio codes so i think that is the O2 sensor. I think 65 is battery circuit problem and I'm not sure what 69 is.
 

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^ These are check engine light (CEL) blink codes, not IMA light blink codes, right? Each light has its own blinks/codes.

If so, the 41 and 65 would seem to be associated with you not having a cat - AF ratio, O2 sensor stuff. The 69 seems to be a general 'IMA problem' code (P1600) - it says 'there's a problem' but doesn't indicate anything specific, or maybe it has to do with motor control signal problem - there's two possible P codes. Usually, or as I recall, if you get the P1600 (or CEL blink 69), you also get another specific IMA light blink code... Is your IMA light still ON? If so you'd need to get the blink codes for that, too...

Here's a link to a spreadsheet with all the code stuff: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bLUyuFXWywH0PIzTXYtT6UprBNkOtjnWh5PFKjDFylA/pubhtml

Again, you need to look up the 'flash' codes for CEL and for the IMA light, separately.

I recently acquired an insight with the ima light on from a mechanic. He replaced the battery pack with a "refreshed" battery ...he believes there is just a bad cell in the battery pack and once its replaced it should be alright...
If it did just have a 'bad cell', you can't replace single cells, you'd have to replace at minimum a full 'stick' (6 cells), and usually you need to replace sticks in pairs because that's how they're managed.

Hunting down a bad cell isn't a trivial task, it's a lot of work. At minimum you'd probably need to start by taking voltage measurements at the 'voltage taps', preferably and almost necessarily under specific conditions, to see if anything looks awry. You generally can only spot major outliers, major problems, doing this. But, doing the measurements, you might get lucky and see voltages that clearly indicate something majorly wrong -- like all the voltages you read are around, say, 16.30V plus or minus 0.05V, and one is 15.85V. That would clearly indicate one of the two sticks to which this 'tap' is connected has a 'bad cell'... I'd say chances of seeing something about like this are, like, 1 in 1000...

Here's a link to a post that describes how to measure voltage at the battery computer voltage taps, if you decide to go that route: The quintessential Insight NiMH voltage thread


Now for the real question! Is it worth testing the cells on this "refreshed" battery pack or could there be something draining the battery pack? I was researching the arduino ima bypass and it really seems like the easier option in this situation, but I guess I was hoping some people on the forums had some more insight on the easy way to get my Citrus running without an electrical headache.
There's not likely something "draining the battery pack"... The closest you'd get to "testing cells" is probably... charging and discharging a single stick, 'on the bench', at which point you should also be at least measuring cell voltages. Which is to say, a lot of work.

Sounds like you're looking for something easy, and there really isn't anything easy - and reliable - when it comes to 'fixing' packs. Most people just try a full pack charge and discharge, maybe a few times, cross fingers and hope it works. If not, give up and buy a new pack - or bypass the IMA entirely.

You should probably just start with a full grid charge and see how well, if at all, that works. If you can't get more than a few months (maybe 3) of seemingly functional IMA usage by just doing that, then try another charge followed by discharge.

You should probably disregard anything about the pack that you've been told by the person you bought it from, just give up on finding any clues in any of that.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
^ These are check engine light (CEL) blink codes, not IMA light blink codes, right? Each light has its own blinks/codes.

If so, the 41 and 65 would seem to be associated with you not having a cat - AF ratio, O2 sensor stuff. The 69 seems to be a general 'IMA problem' code (P1600) - it says 'there's a problem' but doesn't indicate anything specific, or maybe it has to do with motor control signal problem - there's two possible P codes. Usually, or as I recall, if you get the P1600 (or CEL blink 69), you also get another specific IMA light blink code... Is your IMA light still ON? If so you'd need to get the blink codes for that, too...

Here's a link to a spreadsheet with all the code stuff: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bLUyuFXWywH0PIzTXYtT6UprBNkOtjnWh5PFKjDFylA/pubhtml

Again, you need to look up the 'flash' codes for CEL and for the IMA light, separately.



If it did just have a 'bad cell', you can't replace single cells, you'd have to replace at minimum a full 'stick' (6 cells), and usually you need to replace sticks in pairs because that's how they're managed.

Hunting down a bad cell isn't a trivial task, it's a lot of work. At minimum you'd probably need to start by taking voltage measurements at the 'voltage taps', preferably and almost necessarily under specific conditions, to see if anything looks awry. You generally can only spot major outliers, major problems, doing this. But, doing the measurements, you might get lucky and see voltages that clearly indicate something majorly wrong -- like all the voltages you read are around, say, 16.30V plus or minus 0.05V, and one is 15.85V. That would clearly indicate one of the two sticks to which this 'tap' is connected has a 'bad cell'... I'd say chances of seeing something about like this are, like, 1 in 1000...

Here's a link to a post that describes how to measure voltage at the battery computer voltage taps, if you decide to go that route: The quintessential Insight NiMH voltage thread




There's not likely something "draining the battery pack"... The closest you'd get to "testing cells" is probably... charging and discharging a single stick, 'on the bench', at which point you should also be at least measuring cell voltages. Which is to say, a lot of work.

Sounds like you're looking for something easy, and there really isn't anything easy - and reliable - when it comes to 'fixing' packs. Most people just try a full pack charge and discharge, maybe a few times, cross fingers and hope it works. If not, give up and buy a new pack - or bypass the IMA entirely.

You should probably just start with a full grid charge and see how well, if at all, that works. If you can't get more than a few months (maybe 3) of seemingly functional IMA usage by just doing that, then try another charge followed by discharge.

You should probably disregard anything about the pack that you've been told by the person you bought it from, just give up on finding any clues in any of that.
Thank you for the response and you're correct those are CEL codes I didn't know the ima flashed as well. It looks like I'm going with an IMA bypass since I don't have a grid charger or the means/knowledge to test the battery pack.
 
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