[WhyHonda]

I have more than 180K miles on my Insight now and I feel I need to prepare for a clutch replacement (I never did it on this car). When I was looking for clutch kit, I found one (Boss OE Replacement Clutch Kit) which costs only $125. That is less than half the price of an OEM one (Exedy, $310).

Does anyone here knows anything about this Boss brand? Do you have any good or bad experience with it?

THE PRICE OF 124.99 INCLUDES:

Pressure Plate
Clutch Disc
Release Bearing

Note: If your application requires a pilot bearing and the alignment tool, they will also be included in your kit. However, not all applications will require the pilot bearing or alignment tool.


Thanks!

 

[kapps]

I can't comment specifically on the Boss brand but here's a few things to consider:

1. who will be replacing the clutch?
2. how much will it cost? (if the new one doesn't last as long, will you really recoup the costs)
3. you know the oem clutch will last you 180k miles

My friend replaced the clutch on one of his cars with an OE spec one he bought from NAPA or Pep Boys and it lasted 6 months. To me, clutches aren't something to go cheap on. If it doesn't work out, you'll be loosing several times the cost of the part on labor. I'd go for OEM.

 

[WhyHonda]

Good input!

I will do it myself. I checked this forum and found it's pretty straight forward. I am not sure if I should replace the timing belt at the same time if they are in the same area. Any suggestions?

Exactly because of my 180k miles that makes me feel I don't really need an OEM one anymore. Even this Boss one can last half of that, I will have 270k afterwords. Probably many other parts on it can't last that long.

Also just because it's not OEM, doesn't necessarily mean it's low quality. You can find lots of "performance parts" which are much higher quality than the OEM ones. I just don't know this Boss brand.

Thanks!

I can't comment specifically on the Boss brand but here's a few things to consider:

1. who will be replacing the clutch?
2. how much will it cost? (if the new one doesn't last as long, will you really recoup the costs)
3. you know the oem clutch will last you 180k miles

My friend replaced the clutch on one of his cars with an OE spec one he bought from NAPA or Pep Boys and it lasted 6 months. To me, clutches aren't something to go cheap on. If it doesn't work out, you'll be loosing several times the cost of the part on labor. I'd go for OEM.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

I am not sure if I should replace the timing belt at the same time if they are in the same area. Any suggestions?

Sure why not.

And while your at it you'd better pick up a left handed monkey wrench too. You'll need it for the job.

Seriously there's no such thing of either.

The Insight is timing chain equipped. Replacement :?: Big $$$ and AFAIK there will be ample symptoms of abnormal chain noise in warning of advanced wear before failure. IIRC there have only been 2 semi credible posts of catastrophic Insight timing chain failure. Both were slim on details preceeding the loss.

HTH!

 

[LoNOx 1]

I'm not sure where you priced your parts. Here is an online dealer that I have used to get oem parts at a discount. This is the url to the clutch page:
http://tinyurl.com/m9dns

 

[WhyHonda]

That's the first website I went to when I started searching.

You are right, they offer pretty good price on OEM parts. But here is my dilemma: I can either save some money buying non-OEM parts with equivalent quality/durability, or I can use the OEM kind of money buying much higher quality parts. Here is an example of what I call much higher quality:

GRIPFORCE STAGE 1 CLUTCH KIT

Brand New Gripforce Stage 1 heavy-duty Pressure Plate

Brand New Gripforce Stage 1 Full Organic Street Disc

Brand New Release Bearing

Brand New Pilot Bearing (if applicable)

Brand New Alignment Tool

And the cost? Only $235!

So you see, just because it's OEM, doesn't mean it's high quality. Actually all auto manufactures try to cut cost by buying something that's reasonable good quality. That's why I want to spend the money on quality rather than a brand name.

I'm not sure where you priced your parts. Here is an online dealer that I have used to get oem parts at a discount. This is the url to the clutch page:
http://tinyurl.com/m9dns

 

[Insightful Trekker]

So you see, just because it's OEM, doesn't mean it's high quality.

HELP :!: I'm blind (I can't "see" anything) "Gripforce" :?: Never heard of them. Not that I've kept up with all the new aftermarket brands.

The proof is in the pudding as has been said. When your "Gripforce" makes 180K then I'll see and _believe_. Until then I know what I can expect / achieve with OEM.

p.s. and AFAIK "organic" is an older mineral based formula friction material that historicaly had a 100K service life when used in clutch discs. What this "new" organic formula is and how long will it last :?: YMMV.

HTH!

 

[LoNOx 1]

It's your dime, but I'm with Trekker.

OEM at Magestic:
Pressure plate- $106.05
friction disc- $72.72
Throw-out bearing- $13.05


Pilot bearing about $10
alignment tool about $4

Total without shipping = $205.07

If it was a 500 horse GT500, I would get a heavy duty name brand.

The Insight is a 67hp FE vehicle with MAX mpg , not mph.

I have 137000 on it now. IF it fails before my 250000 goal, I will replace it with an OEM assembly.

IMHO of course!

 

[WhyHonda]

To my knowledge, the difference between a regular one and stage 1 one is the pressure plate, and the material on the disk are the same. So I believe the OEM one is also using "organic" material. But this material will differ from a stage 1 one to a stage 2 one. The stage 2 one uses cerametallic disk.

"AFAIK "organic" is an older mineral based formula friction material that historicaly had a 100K service life when used in clutch discs"? Well, you forgot to mention what application this is based on. I bet most likely this is based on a car that is at least 2 times the mass of the Insight. We all know everything on Insight last longer and many times, it's not because Honda use higher quality parts, but simply because Insight is so light! Even the tires on my Insight last more than 120K miles. To many people, it's a miracle. But to me, it's pretty normal and I don't contribute it to Bridgestone. Nobody believe Bridgestone makes high quality tires. But Insight did make them look that way. I use Michelin on my Insight now and I bet they will last longer than Bridgestone ones (OEM, by the way). You want to bet?

By the way, even for the OEM one (Exedy), you don't need to buy it in a Exedy brand. You can find the exact same thing in other brand too and cheaper.

So you see, just because it's OEM, doesn't mean it's high quality.

HELP :!: I'm blind (I can't "see" anything) "Gripforce" :?: Never heard of them. Not that I've kept up with all the new aftermarket brands.

The proof is in the pudding as has been said. When your "Gripforce" makes 180K then I'll see and _believe_. Until then I know what I can expect / achieve with OEM.

p.s. and AFAIK "organic" is an older mineral based formula friction material that historicaly had a 100K service life when used in clutch discs. What this "new" organic formula is and how long will it last :?: YMMV.

HTH!

 

[WhyHonda]

I agree. But here is basically the same thing for $132:

Detail Descriptions

This Clutch Kit contains:

OEM Pressure Plate
OEM Clutch Disc
Release Bearing
Pilot Bearing (If Applicable)
Alignment Tool

GRIPFORCE OEM CLUTCH KIT
Gripforce OEM Clutch Kit is a direct OE-Replacement clutch kit consists of clutch cover(Pressure Plate), Clutch Disc, Release Bearing(or Throw-out Bearing), Pilot Bearing (If applicable) and the Alignment Tool. Gripforce OEM clutch components are from quality OE manufacturers such as DAIKIN-EXEDY, SACHS, VALEO, ASCO, NKK, FCC, NSK, KOYO and etc. Guarantees the LOWEST price on the market, period.

I think nowadays all auto part makers are using components from some major manufacturers like Exedy who built the Insight clutch.

And I believe all OEM manufacturers bid low on auto makers to get their business and they know they can always get their money from selling parts later on. Because once the auto maker choose them, they can become famous brand overnight and immediately double or even triple their price when nothing changed.

It's your dime, but I'm with Trekker.

OEM at Magestic:
Pressure plate- $106.05
friction disc- $72.72
Throw-out bearing- $13.05


Pilot bearing about $10
alignment tool about $4

Total without shipping = $205.07

If it was a 500 horse GT500, I would get a heavy duty name brand.

The Insight is a 67hp FE vehicle with MAX mpg , not mph.

I have 137000 on it now. IF it fails before my 250000 goal, I will replace it with an OEM assembly.

IMHO of course!

 

[tubesguy]

Seriously, you should just buy the one you want. It doesn't make much sense to ask for advice on a purchase and then, in the face of such advice, maintain steadfastly that your original thought on the subject has to be the correct and sensible one. - Pat

 

[WhyHonda]

Then there shouldn't be any forum like this anymore. I learned a lot from just this thread about different kind of clutch designs, materials, etc. If you find yourself wasting your time here, then it's really your problem. I am sure you have something better to do.

Remember, sharing information is the best way to avoid making the same mistake by yourself. But you have to have an open mind if you want to do it.

Seriously, you should just buy the one you want. It doesn't make much sense to ask for advice on a purchase and then, in the face of such advice, maintain steadfastly that your original thought on the subject has to be the correct and sensible one. - Pat

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Easy there WhyHonda.

I am in agreement with tubesguy. Maybe your reading it differently.

Glad I could be of help, but tubesguy's point is also valid. It seems by my read of your posts in this thread you had already made up your mind.

 

[WhyHonda]

I am always easy.

I think maybe you made up your mind that I had already made up mine.

Actually, I haven't yet. The information still missing is the torque transmittal efficiency and parasitic losses with different clutch designs. If the heavier duty plate can reduce the engagement time, therefore reduce the transmission loss and wear, then I will go with it since the cost is almost the same.

So you see, even with MPG, not HP in mind, the clutch can still be a factor.

If you don't believe me, here is the SAE standard for it:

SAE Standards
Document Number: J1540
Date Published: November 2000


Title: Manual Transmission Efficiency and Parasitic Loss Measurement

Issuing Committee:
Truck And Bus Transmission Subcommittee

Easy there WhyHonda.

I am in agreement with tubesguy. Maybe your reading it differently.

Glad I could be of help, but tubesguy's point is also valid. It seems by my read of your posts in this thread you had already made up your mind.

 

[kapps]

With a high clamp pressure plate/clutch, it's going to be pretty hard to drive in traffic... or even launch it for that matter. The Insight needs a little clutch slip to get going anyway. A higher performance clutch is not going to help that. Also, a very fast engaging clutch is going to put some extra load on the other drivetrain components because shifting will not be as smooth.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Issuing Committee:
Truck And Bus Transmission Subcommittee

I'll let you read between the lines above and decide for yourself how much a factor such losses will relate to the "Insight" class of vehicles compaired to the SAE "standard" you refer to above.

IMO Apples :arrow: Oranges

 

[Calpod]

I think it's more like Apples :arrow: Grapes :badgrin:

 

[Insightful Trekker]

LOL :lol:

Just as long as those grapes don't sour :!:

But seriously WhyHonda, this "type" of thread is only marginally helpful. Sure there are comparable quality clutches other than OEM out there, and quite probably superior (in whatever parameter you wish to define that). But how is a post of this type helpful to the membership :?:

Buy the clutch you've _already_ :roll: decided on and _then_ report to the group your experience as it progresses. Now that would be a GREAT thread :!:

Anything less is simply an "armchair" debate of marginal value. :|

Sincerely,

 

[WhyHonda]

If you just know a little bit more about this standard, you will read:

Scope:
Because of the intense focus on fuel economy and fuel emission standards, it has become imperative to optimize vehicle drivetrains. In light of this, component efficiencies have become an important factor in the drivetrain decision-making process. It has therefore become necessary to develop a universal standard to judge transmission efficiency.This SAE Recommended Practice specifies a test procedure which maps torque transmittal efficiency and parasitic losses for manual transmissions. The application of this document is intended for manual transmissions used in light (class 4) through heavy truck applications...

So just because it's from truck and bus subcommittee, doesn't mean it's not a valid standard for all manual transmissions.

Now you know why I have this feeling that you had made up your mind before I did mine ? :badgrin:

Issuing Committee:
Truck And Bus Transmission Subcommittee

I'll let you read between the lines above and decide for yourself how much a factor such losses will relate to the "Insight" class of vehicles compaired to the SAE "standard" you refer to above.

IMO Apples :arrow: Oranges

 

[WhyHonda]

I thought it's the fox who call the grape sour just because he can't get it :lol:

Well, that explains your "marginal value" perfectly

Seriously I still have about 80% left on this clutch and may not do the actual work in the next year or two.

Best wishes to you..

LOL :lol:

Just as long as those grapes don't sour :!:

But seriously WhyHonda, this "type" of thread is only marginally helpful. Sure there are comparable quality clutches other than OEM out there, and quite probably superior (in whatever parameter you wish to define that). But how is a post of this type helpful to the membership :?:

Buy the clutch you've _already_ :roll: decided on and _then_ report to the group your experience as it progresses. Now that would be a GREAT thread :!:

Anything less is simply an "armchair" debate of marginal value. :|

Sincerely,