[Guest]

Hi All:

___A good friend of mine told me about some fireworks that appeared here earlier … I am Sorry I missed them El_Vacho, please feel free to PM me with whatever if interested?

___In regards to the rest of the public slowing down and per Chisight’s observation, I am seeing the same also. There are far more 18-wheelers, SUV’s, and economy cars now doing 55 mph in the far right lanes now then those doing the same just 6 months ago. In fact, I only remember one Lincoln SUV driving under the limit in early summer and now I am seeing 5 or 6 (various makes and models) of automobiles and trucks driving these speeds in open traffic conditions lately. The 18-wheelers in particular have had fuel costs come up over 30% since early summer and they didn’t fall back with #2 Diesel in competition with Home Heating oil.

___It will be interesting to see what happens if #2 Diesel hits $2.50 - $3.00 in the Chicago area. I hear #2 Diesel is $2.50 in many parts of California right now? I can bet there will be even more Big Rigs dropping down to the limits as I think they should.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:335q5vt6][email protected][/email:335q5vt6]

 

[Guest]

Yeah, and stop injecting your particular brand of unconnected-to-reality politics - at least 'till you can come back and tell us you've read the Koran and Hadith

'Course you're not as bad as some.

To whom are you speaking? I did not interject my personal politics here (well, not in thisthread, anyway). I merely stated why I disagreed with someone else's comment that Wayne was the #1 contributor to this site. I feel my post was only slightly rude, and didn't need to be completely removed. I'm sick of being censored.

And anyone who thinks Wayne is the Golden Boy of this forum should read all of his negative opinions of the Insight he states in the thread Is a Hybrid Right for Me? http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1295&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

 

[chisight]

... I'm sick of being censored.

I too am sick of being censored.

Chisight
'00 Red 4453 AC 69K miles 79.6LMPG

 

[Foxpaw]

This thread has some bad feng shui to it. 8)

Seriously though, it's probrably best not to discuss members of the forum in other contexts. Wayne's views of the Insight, or his prior contributions, do not in any way modify the content of his, or anyone else's, posts in this thread.

 

[Tim Maddux]

If you have problems with the actions of any moderator, please discuss privately with the moderator or the site administrator. Discussion in-thread of moderator action, whether you agree or disagree, is off-topic and such posts will continue to be moderated.

If this thread can't be kept on-topic / relevant to the original post then it will be locked.

 

[Yves M.]

Might I add that a civil, friendly and on topic message is never moderated.

 

[james]

El_vacho: I wasn't directing my response to you, but to the poster(s) who kept dragging in their "Blood for Oil" political opinions. Their messages seem to have been deleted, and I certainly don't want to start them over again, so I'll just say that I have a hard time letting such go unchallenged

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<snip>

If this thread can't be kept on-topic / relevant to the original post then it will be locked.

Thank you for your mostly thankless task as a mod.

However, I still struggle to see how this thread was ever on topic. And I too couldn't resist posting early on.

Hindsight being 20/20 and all it appears that this thread can only be one of faster vs. higher MPG. Its simply the physics of the equation. All the related points that follow are political (personal and otherwise) and difficult to keep out of the discussion making the topic one too close to the edge to clearly call til its too late.

It appears that the group is "maturing" in the sense that most anything "new" to discuss in regard to the Insight has already been covered and is familiar to any "regular member". So topics begin to push the good sense limits.

I'd rather see fewer on on topic Insight related posts than the topic drift we have been experiencing lately. There are _plenty_ of other NG's on the Internet for everything else.

 

[u00mem9]

I created this topic, and as you said it was a simple 'value of time' vs. money/fuel consumption question.

The reason I feel it went so far off topic is that no one could counter the original hypothesis with a logic justification...so they had to turn to political justification.

My point was simple: 33 min to save a half gallon of gas doesn't make sense.

If you are truly concerned about your children's future...try spending that 33min with them instead of holding up traffic on the freeway. Frankly I doubt the people making that argument have any children to be concerned with :lol:

And the next time you baulk a tractor trailer rig on the highway, forcing him to change lanes and pass you, so that you can maintain 49.2 mph on an interstate freeway -consider the gallon of fuel he just burned since he could not maintain momentum...but you saved 38cc right?

I suppose since there were 48+ replies, including several that were several hundred words long...by the same person(!), I can understand why many might not sweat wasting 33min. :roll:

Peace!

 

[Guest]

Hi El_Vacho:

___(EDITED BY MODERATOR) I didn’t post a lie or stretch the truth but told it like it is vs. whatever you think of your automobile(s). Rose coloring anything to do with hybrids and in particular there fuel savings over and above there std. ICE counterparts with the increased costs without the discussion of “potential” vs. actual fuel economy is a disservice to future Hybrid owners. Here is another for you to chew on as shown here:

SIEGEL: Many have noted that you are not an unconditional supporter of hybrids. In fact, many times you recommend the purchase of traditional combustion vehicles. Could you please share your reasoning?

GERDES: I am a bottom-line-at-all-costs type of individual. With that being my foundation, I see hybrids as having the capability of extreme mileage but most don't care to take them to their max capabilities. If you drive a hybrid for fuel economy, it will pay itself off over time. If you don't, there are a number of choices that are just as clean, just as equipped, and far less expensive.
----------

___In the context of this thread, anyone receiving 45 mpg or less in an Insight has not purchased it to conserve fuel by any means. There are a ton of reasons to own a hybrid (an Insight in particular) but if FE is not a high priority, your money is best spent elsewhere imho … Is conserving time a priority or owning a Hybrid to achieve high FE? We each have our thresholds but I don’t believe Hybrid’s were built to save time given their capabilities to be extremely fuel efficient. Except possibly for those driving single in the Car Pool lanes around the state of Virginia that is.

Honda Accord Sedan

… It kept me comfortable, safe, and gave me 33+ MPG with an average speed of 80 MPH and the climate control on at all times. Not to mention the XM radio is awesome. Was able to listen to the Dirty Dancing True Hollywood Story to keep me awake during a two hour jaunt starting at 4 AM.

___I have to wonder what our little beauties are worth at an average speed of 80 mph w/ the auto-climate running the A/C as it sees fit? A WAG but a 5-speed, maybe 45 - 50 mph? The CVT, 40 mpg or less possibly? In the same breath, that 7th gen Accord will never achieve 70 + mpg let alone 110 + no matter how it is driven. This is after all the crux of the matter as it pertains to this thread from my viewpoint.

PS: I am still awaiting your PM with the rude post in its entirety?

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:j47662il][email protected][/email:j47662il]

 

[Guest]

Hi El_Vacho:

___(EDITED BY MODERATOR) I didn’t post a lie or stretch the truth but told it like it is vs. whatever you think of your automobile(s).

(snip)

PS: I am still awaiting your PM with the rude post in its entirety?

I don't think insinuating that I'm a liar or goading me into a private arguement is an acceptable use of this forum.

 

[Guest]

Hi U00mem9:

___It takes a gallon of fuel for a Big-rig to pass someone? That sounds more like the FE of an M1 Abrahams in deep sand … Some of these rigs probably haul those fuel tankers around just so they can cross the state, let alone the country

___Here near Chicago, the speed limit is 55 mph or less for the close suburban Interstates and 65 for those far outside. The minimum is 45 over the entire distance. If you are burning up an extra ½ gallon in your Insight day over day, week over week, year over year, at 72 mph vs. 55 mph, I can just imagine how much more fuel you are burning up in anything else you have driven or will drive in the future? What is ten thousand or so gallons extra burned over a lifetime anyway? Not including the excess emissions of those 10,000 + gallons (this includes less efficient automobiles over a 50 year span). How about the average American driving 72 mph vs. 55 mph? After all, 99% of America thinks this is OK because there time is more valuable so it must be the right thing to do? Ask an average European citizen this question and the outcome will be completely different. Why? Not only does gas cost 2.5 X as much but they must have been raised to conserve resources instead of burning them up like we do here in the states apparently? Look up what our dependence on foreign oil costs in real terms? Do you know ½ of our trade deficit is in oil alone? If the ME were non-existent, would we need a US military as large as it is? The dollar is only worth 1/3 of what it was in Japanese Yen terms from 20 years ago. It is worth just ½ of what it would purchase in the EU just 3 short years ago? When is it going to stop? After PeakOil?

___Slowing down saves fuel. Driving fast saves time. A quick look at ones lmpg will tell what choice each of us has made other then those even farther north that are getting murdered with 0 degree temps right about now

____James, sorry to bring in the financial issue but I thought the small link to currency was pertinent to conserving time vs. fuel.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:32p19pz3][email protected][/email:32p19pz3]

 

[Tim Maddux]

Wayne, el_vacho, I encourage you to direct your conversation elsewhere (PM, email) and to desist from continuing it in this thread. Thanks.

 

[james]

"___I have to wonder what our little beauties are worth at an average speed of 80 mph w/ the auto-climate running the A/C as it sees fit?"

Well, I bought mine from a guy in Las Vegas, and drove it back the 450 or so miles on a fairly hot day in late May/early June. Averaged around 80 (touching 100 in a couple of places), with A/C on (and not econo mode, as I hadn't figured it out yet). Still got about 55 mpg

"If you are burning up an extra ½ gallon in your Insight day over day..."

But isn't that just as good an argument, if not better, for finding a way not to make that long drive in the first place? Instead of saving 1/2 gallon and 30 minutes per day by driving 50 instead of 70, you'd save 2+ gallons and maybe 3 hours per day

"If the ME were non-existent, would we need a US military as large as it is?"

(Sigh) Politics again, and I can't hold back much longer I really, really wish that some people would disabuse themselves of this notion that history only began a couple of years ago, or maybe in 1945 at the earliest

 

[Foxpaw]

And the next time you baulk a tractor trailer rig on the highway, forcing him to change lanes and pass you, so that you can maintain 49.2 mph on an interstate freeway -consider the gallon of fuel he just burned since he could not maintain momentum...but you saved 38cc right?

Erm... It costs effectively no fuel to change lanes. There is little to no loss of momentum in this situation.

I think that you were thinking that the semi would have to accelerate in order to pass you, and this would burn fuel. However, that does not seem logical: if you are holding up a semi behind you, then it must be travelling faster than you. Hence, it would be able to simply change lanes and pass without any change in speed at all.

 

[Guest]

Hi James:

Well, I bought mine from a guy in Las Vegas, and drove it back the 450 or so miles on a fairly hot day in late May/early June. Averaged around 80 (touching 100 in a couple of places), with A/C on (and not econo mode, as I hadn't figured it out yet). Still got about 55 mpg

___Damn, I was pretty close, wasn’t I

But isn't that just as good an argument, if not better, for finding a way not to make that long drive in the first place? Instead of saving 1/2 gallon and 30 minutes per day by driving 50 instead of 70, you'd save 2+ gallons and maybe 3 hours per day

___Does this not apply to us all? I could make $12.00 an hour at the Walmart or $10.00 an hour at McDonald’s < ½ mile away and not burn any gasoline at all! Or I can work for 3 - 4X as much, drive 96 miles, and enjoy every benefit offered to date. What is any of our excuses? There has to be a gas station, 7-11, Walmart, McDonald’s, Bar and Grill within walking distance of most of us, right? So what is your excuse?

___A little history … 5 + years ago, my job was only 9 miles away. The following happened: ComEd offers …. I was offered a similar position but it was 96 miles away. You know, no loss in pay, no loss in benefits, 4-1/2 weeks of vacation, $20K a year in the 401K, etc. The wife makes as much as I do right where she is. I am sure you can do the math. In other words, should we all work at the local McDonalds for ¼ as much with little to no benefits and not drive or drive while keeping the wife’s commute the same and get ready to retire instead?

___Can you guess as to the reason the Insight has an lmpg of 92.5? My current position is in jeopardy for downsizing reasons so I might actually work in a similar position for another company that is much closer in the not to distant future … And I will lose my vacation build, loading my 401K, senior level pay, etc. Can you say the same or not?

___So, am I conserving time in my immediate future? Not a chance? Am I conserving time with a chance at retirement in 7 years vs. never with the alternatives proposed? You make the call …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1s0qn1dq][email protected][/email:1s0qn1dq]

 

[b1shmu63]

Wayne I seem to recall that you listen to talking books while you travel. Those who drive for a living ..... delivery, courier, truck driver, taxi, spend a lot more time in their vehicle than you do just to make a living.

 

[DonWatson3558]

I have read a couple of posts that seem to suggest all people should match their words with actions regarding energy conservation (other than Insight), or might spend too little time with more important things in life such as time with children, etc.

Please realize I am not suggesting these posters meant any offense to these types of comments, and I certainly mean no offense to anybody from mine.

I just wanted to mention that I suspect many of us (including me), spend significant amounts of our free time making our homes more energy efficient. Also, I do a lot of work to help feed the homeless and tutor 4th grade inner-city children with their math.

I feel I am able to make these types of contributions to society and at the same time preserve or environment and reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

I am saying this to brag by any stretch. The posts I refer to point out that we should do these things, and I just wanted to mention that many of us do.

The Insight is part of the package! I love my Insight!!

 

[Guest]

Hi Don:

___Let me be the first to congratulate you for your charitable contributions for society’s sake.

___God bless you and yours.

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2lbk6go1][email protected][/email:2lbk6go1]

 

[Philosophy]

What a touchy thread, my goodness.

I think it's definately true that if you change the expectations of your vehicle (ie following driving norms of hurry up and wait, lay on the gas all the time, run the ac when it's cool outside) to more reasonable goals (get up to speed at a decent rate, plan accel/decel with incoming traffic concerns, be light on the gas pedal, and considering the fuel cost of climate control) you can improve the gas mileage of any vehicle.

With that in mind, xcel seems to be someone who views his Insight from the perspective of a hypermile individual willing to accept costs in time and social driving norms to achieve great gas mileage. He's also someone who is very sensitive to variations in fuel economy (the thread talking about a strong wind and rain, only getting 50 some mpg and being upset) which causes him to be frustrated with the vehicle because of how he sees the role of his Insight.

Personally I'm happy enough that in just about any circumstance I'm getting leaps and bounds of superior fuel economy while driving a sporty and fun to drive car that turns heads and saves me money. It doesn't hurt my feelings as much if I'm in a nasty wind/rain + hills situation that kills my fuel economy because I'm pretty happy go luck about it.

xcel takes his Insight and his fuel economy very seriously which is why he sees glaring deficiencies in how it can't meet his high expectations every time - hence recommending non hybrid ICE for others' applications. The very extreme potential he is an outlier within just shows what the Insight is capable of - it's definately more subject to the whims of mother nature than his other vehicles that are more consistent, but consistently lower fuel economy vehicles.

It all makes sense. I don't understand the problem in this thread, seriously folks. Peace love and chicken grease, as it's said in Kentucky.
-Philo