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Hi ,I'm new to this forum and to the honda hybrid world … I own a 2008 HCH and the hybrid battery has failed having the IMA and check engine light on .I would like to convert from nimh to li-ion INR 18650 samsung 3.7v 44s10p pack or lipo with orion bms 72S and use all the original charging equipment like old bms just faul it . Has any one done some thing like this before and please give me your thoughts .I will also be documenting on video to share with you guys...thank you and have a great day.
 

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Hi ,I'm new to this forum and to the honda hybrid world … I own a 2008 HCH and the hybrid battery has failed having the IMA and check engine light on .I would like to convert from nimh to li-ion INR 18650 samsung 3.7v 44s10p pack or lipo with orion bms 72S and use all the original charging equipment like old bms just faul it . Has any one done some thing like this before and please give me your thoughts .I will also be documenting on video to share with you guys...thank you and have a great day.
This is an Insight Forum. You should consider searching before you continue posting. This topic has been discussed in detail many times and there are at least a few active threads on it within the last few days.

Your proposed battery won't work at all unless you plan to limit charge current to 12.5A when the car will pump in excess of 50A. If you're not planning to limit charge current, then you've failed to consider that LiPo charge and discharge currents are usually vastly different. For the cells you identified, they are limited to 1.25A charge or a 4A fast charge. Fast charging will generate a lot of heat and be inefficient and hard on the cells.

Specs: http://dalincom.ru/datasheet/SAMSUNG INR18650-25R.pdf

44S = 110-184.8V operating range if using the 0-100% range, which you don't want to do. You likely want to limit to 40-80% range. The INSIGHT will charge as high as 192V. I don't know what the HCH2 would do, but I expect it will go 10% higher since there are 10% more cells.

Good luck,

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #4
how about this different thoght?

how about if we use a different cell with lower mAh for lower cost purposes put them arrangement 43s40p the 43s would = 159.1v the 40p x 1.25 for charging = 50 amp. I would be using a battery that would be able to deliver continuous 10 amp my civic hybrid battery pack is a 158.4 volt pack it has 132 D cell in series. what do you think about that ? and what do you think about orion bms 72s split the battery pack in half with the safety switch.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
samwichse I really like the suggestions you made thank you..the honda battery I couldn't find any how meny cells or pack voltage or Amp hr per cell .
Ford C-Max Battery 38 Cells C-Max 5.5Ah Tested Cells single cells 3.7v Total battery rated at 1.4Kwh with 76 cells.
Tested at 5.5Ah from 4.2V to 2.75V.
100A continuous discharge.
150A peak discharge.
Cathode /Anode Material: LiMn2O4/Hard Carbon . but not sure how high is the charging limit on the these cells. If you have any info to add on these that would be awesome..
 

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EBay seller azlithium claims (for what it's worth):
4.2V = 100% SOC (Absolute MAX)
4.1V = 90% SOC (recommended max)
3.7V = 70% SOC
3.5V = 20% SOC (recommended min)
3V = 0% Soc
 

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Discussion Starter #10
thank you mmdepace for the information but what kind of charge rate can be applied to these batteries I'm trying to build a pack that can handle 50A regen braking
 

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samwichse ,I'm really new at this batteries and hybrid stuff so I apologize ahead of time for my silly question I maybe asking as I'm learning :) . where or how did you come up with 150A regen for 10s?
 

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Why are there not more youtube videos?

After searching I havent found many videos on the litium conversions or systems that have been made by you super smart people, sincerely the new/old insight lover.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
thank you all for your advise and education on this subject I did a alot of research on the c-max batteries and decided to go with them ..so I am going orion bms for battery management ..my plan is to go with 43s x3.7v = 159.1v lithium..
my hch2 has original set from the factory 132s x 1.2v =158.4v nimh..from the factory the cells are setup 6cells in a stick and 22 sticks.... every 2 sticks (pair)at the top have a resistor and wire going back to the battery management system , I dont know if it manages or monitors the batteries voltage ? but this is all to get to my next questions will I need somthing else to keep my IMA and check engine off ?? my plan is set up the batteries in 3.7v x 4= 14.8v at the top will set the resistors,wires and back to the factory bms in addition to the orion bms ? please give me your thoughts and comments and concerns.. :)
 

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OK a few thoughts.

1) How will you stop the oem IMA system charging the batteries if they are too full or the Orion says stop charging?

2) Ditto same question in reverse, what if they get too low or Orion says stop assisting?

3) How are you connecting them to the car? Via the OEM switch board x 4 pack points?

4) If 3 how will you deal with the main switch pack break point? The orion 2 is fussy about how you configure it and the position of any break point in it's tap selections/groups etc etc

5) The original pack had 132 cells x 11 taps = 12cells per tap. You have 43 cells, that does not divide evenly between 11 oem voltage taps... Are you going to use a BCM fooler (resistor matrix)?
 

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John B,

Initially, I recommended that you consider searching this site, as this topic has been covered multiple times.

Your subsequent posts suggests:
1) you haven't done so
2) you have done so, but found nothing (search failure)
3) you have done so, but didn't learn anything (search and/or comprehension failure)

Peter is too nice. I'm going to try a different tack now.

Abandon this project. You are not equipped for this exercise in the extreme. Buy a new battery and never have to deal with this for at least 3 years.

OR

Spend the next 3-6 months doing nothing but research, scouring this and other sites for sparse HCH2 data, learn how the system works, learn how to spoof it into behaving against its designed behavior and learn the risks and dangers of Lithium technology. NiMH won't burn and can only explode in extremely rare cases, where lithium will burn you to the ground.

To you, this IS rocket science. Until you become competent at the basic level in "rocket science", you have no business launching rockets.

Good luck,

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
egads the 12v battery has been replaced its about one year old and when testing it ,it test good.

steve your opinion is wonderfull. I have taken my hybrid battery apart and discharged and recharged all 11 module (pairs) in it and it ran good then my son(15yr old)and I found a guy sold me a pack from a wrecked vehicle
that sat in around for three years .I thought the cells would be no good sins it sat around for so long but I wonted it to experiment with when I got home we took it apart and put a meter to it and the 11 modules had about 10-12v each ,I charged and recharged the about 5 times per module and 9 module came back to life and used them for a scooter for my younger son (9yr old) ...I then purchased 132 D cell nimh 10 Ah from tenergy welded them together and stuck them in the case from the that the guy sold us wrecked car one and put that in the car and it works so at this point I have a battery pack with some old cells sitting in my garage and my son has really started getting in to all this stuff with batteries and ev ,phev and so on ... I would much rather leave the pack that my son and I build 3 months ago alone in the car cuz it works good and it was a real pain in my *** to put it(132 cell) together but now I have this opportunity to bond with my kids more and they really like what we are doing so I will continue .. a little back ground on me ,I work on fire trucks ,medics and police cars for 45hrs a week ( I'm a certified master technician) then I go to collage for 30hrs a week .I'm 40years old(this means I'm old, tired and dont have a lot of time ) and my kids enjoy what we are doing on our spare time . We have learned alot about lithium and how it blows @#$% up .. when I came to this site it was cuz I know people are trying things and some are failing and some are succeeding but this is a place where people learn together ''TEAM WORK'' fail and succeed.
now if this bothers you ,you my wanna evaluate why you are on this forum to begin with . in the mean time I did check those video out way before I came to this site the problem with some of those videos is they are older ,I'm not saying bad just technology is changing by the second now a days
and in the videos peter is using some A123 cell if I recall .. those are 3.2v so he needed to use a fooler .from his video I learned of 72s orion bms so I can split my cell pack in half ..he purchased a smaller on then couldnt do his split as he needed ..but any ways I'm not a dumb ***. People on this forum have really good Ideas and great knowledge this forum is where I received a suggestion to use the c-max batteries .so THANK YOU to the people that are doing what they can to help others out ..and thank you to steve I hope your having a great day on this Sunday afternoon. ;);)
 
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