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Discussion Starter #1
We have loved our Gen 1 so much that we today bought a 2011 pearl white CZ-R 50k and a six speed manual:confused: over in the UK it looks like CVTs arnt available. With its red leather interior it looks the part, and I have to say its a very comfy place to sit. Minus points are its steel why? and a 100 volt battery that runs down much faster than the Gen 1 in assist mode, however assist and regen are much smoother, another plus is the ride and road noise both better than the Gen 1.
The car will be used by Jayne mostly and when off out as it will fit our dog as in the UK it has rear seats, something the Gen 1 doesnt.
On the whole it is a better car than the Gen 1 but it could have been so much better with say our engine with turbo, ali body and a lithium battery from the start, just my thoughts others points of view welcome ;)
 

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Much more in common with the G2, including the battery.
Weighs more like the G2.

G1 Insight: 1875lbs
G1 Civic Hybrid: 2675lbs
CR-Z: 2650lbs
G2 Insight: 2720lbs

By US standards it's a rather slow car and gets underwhelming economy, but my impression is that they're reliable, comfortable and have good driving dynamics.
 

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In the States we call it the CRZ. Is CZR a typo? When it came out I was all set to buy one as a replacement for the CRX. Honda missed the mark when they made it only a hybrid. They would have sold many more if they had put a K20 motor in it and got rid of the hybrid stuff.
 

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Looks and rides great but nothing special in economy or performance. 2 door hatchbacks don't sell well here anyway. The Fit gets similar mpg and acceleration without the weight and complexity of the hybrid stuff and carries a lot more.
 

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vote 4 mawah
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crz uk 2011 100v pack

What I remember reading during the relase of the Gen2 insight ( also has the 100V pack and steel body) was that honda wanted to make a cheaper version of the Civic hybrid) to compete with prius offerings like the prius C...
https://www.cars.com/articles/2012/11/2013-honda-cr-z-more-power-increased-efficiency/
I think gen2 insight started at $15.900 and Civic started around $22.000 us.
sales related - also shows what most car sales people knew about the cars specs.
http://cdn.dealereprocess.com/cdn/brochures/honda/2011-crz.pdf

At the time I didn't know about the 100v pack and only learned about it recently, while looking at used packs for the HCH2... And in my searching last year noticed honda advertizing the batteries as having 19% or 30% higher power density than the previous NiMH batteries used in the HCH2 and Accords of that time frame....
I'm quickly searching for data showing examples .. ah! here it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Insight#IMA_battery
not quite half way ( near the middle of the wiki page)
IMA battery
The Insight's IMA is powered by a flat, nickel metal hydride battery pack located below the cargo floor between the rear wheels. The 84 module battery is manufactured by Sanyo Electric[57] and provides a nominal system voltage of 100.8 volts with a nominal capacity of 5.75 ampere-hours.[58] The power density of the modules is 30 percent greater than in the second generation Civic Hybrid. The battery is recharged automatically by scavenging engine power, when needed, and by regenerative braking when the car is decelerating. The power management electronics, battery modules, and cooling system are all self-contained within the IMA battery pack.
The other thing I remember being different was the 3 button IMA mode selection (Economy - Normal - Sport) again to compete with Toyota offerings at that time.... In my mind - the sport mode in a hybrid at that time from honda was compeietely against the ideals of building a hybrid in the first place (reduce emissions and increased mpg / kpl? - kilometers pre liter?) .
Although if memory servers me correctly? the sales people loved it, and so di the high performace drivers/modders.

also see the crz wiki page linked to near the bottom of the insight wiki page
See also

Honda CR-Z
Honda Civic Hybrid
Honda Legend
Acura RLX
List of hybrid vehicles
crz link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CR-Z

ps I really should change my profile signature, even though my HCH2 still show the same behavior as shown - I'll hopefully get around to it after my next pack switch out. change snuffs to degrades or something.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes it is a typo its CR-Z sport have been driving it for two days to make sure its OK for Jayne.
My real point is that it could have been so much better, the IMA part is better than a Gen 1 but the weight, small battery and larger engine seem a backward step, as I said turbo our engine ali body and a bigger lithium battery and it would have been brilliant:badgrin:
 

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10 year old tech. Honda did the best they could with what they had to put together something that would sell in low volume. Could they have used Li and an aluminum body? Sure. Would anyone have paid $50,000 for it? Not likely.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am not sure, lots of car makers are using Ali now and have been for a number of years [Jaguar, Audi to name two]. 2013 CR-Zs are using Lithiums now dont know how much it put the price up? So for me Honda missed a chance with the CRZ, turboing the old engine would have helped clean it up [look how many makers are using small capacity petrol turbo engines now] and would have upped the performance to the 1500 used in the CR-Z.
What I am saying is the gen 1 was a huge leap forward the CR-Z wasnt, as I say other opinions are welcome:cool:
 

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vote 4 mawah
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crz

Honda appears to be in NO rush to offer hybrid, ev and fc technologies to the public.
A Honda press release I read a year or two ago mentioned Hondas plans to implement 50% of it's fleet as hybrid and ev by 2030.

If that says anything to you regarding Honda missing the boat as a company.
They probably make more money licensing their technology to their partner(s) in the us anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well I had the CRZ on the ramp today and predictably it has light corrosion on its bottom:mad:! Once again it shows up the backward step Honda took with not using Ali in the car for its body shell, my Japanese import gen 1 at 2005 has a clean as a whistle bottom:D
Its such a shame the car drives well, is reasonably economical, looks good, and is very comfy, with more effort it would have brilliant to say the least
 

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Crz

CRZ values in the US seem to have "tanked" considering how pricey they were new. Lots for sale for less than $7,000. I wish they got better MPG, or were faster, or had more seats. My tuned cheap BMW 335d gets 37mpg with 375hp and 610 ftlbs, has seating for 5, and performance handling. The CRZ seems to be an oddity to me that doesn't make much sense. Maybe that's why they never sold that many?
 

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Crz

Are there any mods out there to increase the CRZ fuel mileage? I should have asked that before completely writing the CRZ off. I do like the CRZ styling.
 

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Are there any mods out there to increase the CRZ fuel mileage? I should have asked that before completely writing the CRZ off. I do like the CRZ styling.
Nothing to significantly increase your mileage that wouldn't reduce comfort and practicality. It was a compromise when it was created. In comparison, my 5 passenger hybrid Jetta is quicker with a turbo engine and 7 speed transmission, gets better mileage, and can drive on pure electric with a Li battery pack and is priced similarly to what a CRZ would cost. Had a red one two years ago for a few months just to try it out, and while it was pleasant enough, I haven't had a desire to get another one. They look great inside and out but that's really the only positive aspect I thought.

 

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Discussion Starter #16
CRZ values in the US seem to have "tanked" considering how pricey they were new. Lots for sale for less than $7,000. I wish they got better MPG, or were faster, or had more seats. My tuned cheap BMW 335d gets 37mpg with 375hp and 610 ftlbs, has seating for 5, and performance handling. The CRZ seems to be an oddity to me that doesn't make much sense. Maybe that's why they never sold that many?
The thing is over in the UK diesel sales are dropping daily! and the value of them has fell through the floor! Its all down to NOX and the people its killing, at one point 52% of cars sold were diesel now its under 20% which shows peoples displeasure with them.

The CRZ is a great fun car and could have been a world beater, instead of which its an also ran
 

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Yeah, as technology chugs along more options like hybrids and pure electrics are replacing the diesels. Manufacturers are also producing less diesels. VW group alone accounts for most of the massive drop in diesel sales in Europe. The point was that the CRZ wasn't one of them. People still preferred the diesels to the CRZ, if you believe the sales numbers.
You can claim Nox is the reason for diminished diesel sales if it makes you feel good, but it's hard to purchase something that isn't available. At least not in the huge numbers they were. Also, my modded diesels still put out less CO2 than any stock CRZ, if you want to split hairs. The future is electric, with both diesel and gas vehicles being replaced. The reason it's happening is because we're finally at a place where electrics can save money and go the distance.
I myself am here to semi replace the diesel BMW with a 15 year old Insight for my everyday commute, but that is for a financial decision (car will pay for itself while I keep miles off the BMW). The frugality of 55+mpg is hard to ignore on my 1000 mile/week commute.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yeah, as technology chugs along more options like hybrids and pure electrics are replacing the diesels. Manufacturers are also producing less diesels. VW group alone accounts for most of the massive drop in diesel sales in Europe. The point was that the CRZ wasn't one of them. People still preferred the diesels to the CRZ, if you believe the sales numbers.
You can claim Nox is the reason for diminished diesel sales if it makes you feel good, but it's hard to purchase something that isn't available. At least not in the huge numbers they were. Also, my modded diesels still put out less CO2 than any stock CRZ, if you want to split hairs. The future is electric, with both diesel and gas vehicles being replaced. The reason it's happening is because we're finally at a place where electrics can save money and go the distance.
I myself am here to semi replace the diesel BMW with a 15 year old Insight for my everyday commute, but that is for a financial decision (car will pay for itself while I keep miles off the BMW). The frugality of 55+mpg is hard to ignore on my 1000 mile/week commute.
In Germany some towns and cities have banned diesels! In the UK from this year diesels and some petrol's will have to pay to go in some towns and cities. Over here things have really gone against diesels, yes the VW group started the fall from grace, but in reality they were already doomed in Europe, because they really are killing people, the air quality figures prove it. Its not just NOX its the particulate matter as well, in some cases its so small it passes from the lungs into the bloodstream and then throughout the body, its carcinogenic so people are developing cancer more frequently, its now a better than even chance you will get it and the increase seemed to rise as diesel car sales have risen! Not proof positive of course but good enough for the people to reject diesels.
 

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No argument there. Mine both put visible particulate matter out at full throttle. They do pollute in different ways. I always felt it was a decent trade off by adding 10 times less CO2 into the atmosphere than the gas cars, CO2 being the main greenhouse gas contributing to global warming. In just a few years we'll all be driving pure electrics and ICE engines of any sort will be irrelevant. I look forward to that day.
German towns should ban schnitzel, considering how many people die from that vs diesel emissions.. sorry, had to sneak that in. I've was in the trucking industry and around diesels for 20 years and have been so many other things like fried food kill people that banning diesels seems ridiculous, but I guess it's how you decide to look at it. I suppose I'm lucky to live in the US. I never thought I'd say that in 2019!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/diesel-exhaust-and-cancer.html
 

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Discussion Starter #20
No argument there. Mine both put visible particulate matter out at full throttle. They do pollute in different ways. I always felt it was a decent trade off by adding 10 times less CO2 into the atmosphere than the gas cars, CO2 being the main greenhouse gas contributing to global warming. In just a few years we'll all be driving pure electrics and ICE engines of any sort will be irrelevant. I look forward to that day.
German towns should ban schnitzel, considering how many people die from that vs diesel emissions.. sorry, had to sneak that in. I've was in the trucking industry and around diesels for 20 years and have been so many other things like fried food kill people that banning diesels seems ridiculous, but I guess it's how you decide to look at it. I suppose I'm lucky to live in the US. I never thought I'd say that in 2019!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/diesel-exhaust-and-cancer.html
Dont disagree with anything you say, I have even removed the diesel engine from my boat, its a modern engine but in locks you can smell it, and if you can smell it you are breathing it. Now electric, LifePo4 batteries and solar to charge. Its an inland waterways boat so 3-4 MPH is fast enough and a couple hours a day is enough as well
 
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