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I have a 2001 5-speed. I have a life-long MPG of 60.1. (90% of my driving is highway)
I'm thinking about getting an Insight for my wife but she wants a CVT.
What can we expect the life-long MPG of a CVT to be?
The highway numbers from Honda for the CVT are 14 MPG lower then the 5-speed.
If I carry that over, that would be only about 46 MPG. Are the CVT's MPG really that low?

Thanks All,
Steven
 

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Hi Swkass; all things being equal, I figure about 22 mpg LESS for the CVT, since there is no lean burn. The potential of lean burn cannot be overstated, it's an amazing technology that has truly not been given proper credit.

Nevertheless, a CVT set up properly, and with a driver willing to be a student of efficiency, 66 to 82 mpg is possible! Fred and his Silver Bullet can really crank out some numbers. Several others have done it also.

If you have the stock Bridgestone tires, put in at least 44 lbs of air, keep the battery SOC on or near full, slow down a bit, etc, there is no reason why you can't average over 80 mpg in your 5-speed, and 64 mpg for her CVT? Sounds good to me.......... :)
 

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Come on, LMPG of 89.5!! Where do you live? Must be in a warmer place then I do. An I'm still having a hard time believing it!
I drive VERY conservative and think about my mpg every drive. Every day my work comute is 110. All highway. I drive with the semi's every day and keep it below 65mph. The best I can do in the summer is about 70-75mpg. I can even have good days in the 80's and have reached 90's once. In the winter I can pull off around in the low 50's.
There is no way I can can even come close to 80's as an average! Even if I lived in warmer weather. If I did the best I would think would be low 70's.
What's your secret!!!???
 

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There are plenty of Insights with lifetime averages in the 90s. It takes some work, though, and maybe some "careful selection" of routes and dates. I can get 85 on my commute in the summer, but it drops under 70 in the winter. If I had a slightly less tough route to follow, and only drove in the summer, I could easily get into the 90s...
 

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I have the CVT and have a LMPG of 54.7. I usually get in the high 50's during the spring and fall, mid 50's in the winter with the radiator block mod and in the low 50's in the summer due to AC use. In the city I get in the mid 40's year round.
 

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swkass,

Billy didn't achieve VIP status merely by _fictionally writing_ about his achievements. ;)

Spend some time reading the many posts here in the MPG forum. There are 2 other recent (in the top 10 of the forum list) that already answers your question.
 

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Billy said:
Nevertheless, a CVT set up properly, and with a driver willing to be a student of efficiency, 66 to 82 mpg is possible! Fred and his Silver Bullet can really crank out some numbers. Several others have done it also.

If you have the stock Bridgestone tires, put in at least 44 lbs of air, keep the battery SOC on or near full, slow down a bit, etc, there is no reason why you can't average over 80 mpg in your 5-speed, and 64 mpg for her CVT? Sounds good to me.......... :)
Let's not give false hope to a potential future CVT owner. If I recall back when IC had it's mileage database, the average LMPG was somewhere around 55mpg. There were a couple LMPG's over 60, but none over 70. Interestingly, another hybrid website, which shall remain nameless, lists Honda Insight CVT LMPG average as 55. I think this is a much more realistic mpg figure especially for " swkass" .from Chicago, who will be dealing with cold temperatures also.
 

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... I'm thinking about getting an Insight for my wife but she wants a CVT. What can we expect the life-long MPG of a CVT to be?
On this end I'm not so sure that knowing about what the "life-long MPG of a CVT" is would be a good basis for the decision to purchase or not purchase a CVT.

Experience has shown me that in a CVT, for a given run you can get very good MPG readings, However in the Winter you will get lower readings but in the Summer, which is going on now, you/she can expect to achieve MPG readins far in excess of that which Honda used in advertising for these little cars.

Note, while high MPG readings are not entirely due to driving skills, there will be days (sometimes a lot of them, especially in the Winter, the colder days) when the MPG reading at the end of the day is quite "bad" - per the expected norm. Then again, there will be days when you did so well, it will be almost impossible to get that grin off of your face.

You already own an Insight, so you have an idea of what these little cars can delilver. You already know that for a given run, most likely the CVT will not deliver the MPG rating which a manual version will - but the difference in the two can at times be so little, so inconsiquential that a decision to purchase or not purchase a CVT based on LMPG, I for one just don't think that to be a valid decision point.

I'm not the only CVT driver who's pulling some rather good MPG readings. Others have reported MPG readings as good or better than what I've done but again, it doesn't happen all the time - but what does happen just about every time is that with an Insight CVT you and/or the wife will beat any and I believe all American cars on the road today (four cylinder, six cylinder, eight cylinder and diesel to) and do it in a large measure at that.

Buying or not buying a CVT based on LMPG? I think you're asking the wrong question there.

Fred / Proud Owner of "The Silver Bullet"
 

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Scott said:
Let's not give false hope to a potential future CVT owner. If I recall back when IC had it's mileage database, the average LMPG was somewhere around 55mpg....
While I agree that some CVT drivers can get into the high 60s / low 70's by doing their own version of hypermiling, I agree that it would not be typical. But we should at least give the CVT the MPG rating that the EPA (and Honda) has posted as a starting point. The original question is really impossible for another member to answer because there are too many variables to consider. Your lifetime in the MT of 60.1 would also be considered low (even according to the EPA ratings - not the recently modified ones) You say 90% of your driving is highway (a big clue) in the MT and you are basing your estimate of the CVT on your own personal experience of the lifetime of your manual transimission. If you really want better gas mileage for both versions of the Insight - slow down :) ...(my opinion)

For perhaps speed reasons, you are probably not getting into lean burn as often as others driving the MT so you are not gaining the full 14MPG difference between the models to begin with. So you can not deduct 14MPG from your current experience on the MT and conclude that the CVT will get that low of a number.

Just a guess and without the typical lean burn usage on the MT, the mileage difference between the two models in your experience will only be about 4-5MPG difference in favor of the manual (assuming the same occupancy weight, route taken, weather conditions, battery state, driving technique). The manual still has the slight MPG advantage due to lighter vehicle weight and less transmission power loss and perhaps the slightly stronger engine.

There is more to the CVT than just MPG ratings :)

JoeCVT - Just your average CVT owner
 

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Maybe I am dumb and/or should know, but what does the battery SOC mean and what do you mean by "full."-a full charge perhaps?
My car is 5 years old, has 52000 miles on it, and the original battery. Do I need to do anything? Could tis be causing the less than optimum mpg I get?
you have the stock Bridgestone tires, put in at least 44 lbs of air, keep the battery SOC on or near full
 

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in my CVT, i seem to average 48-52 mpg, sometimes better, sometimes worse. Lately i have been averaging 54-55 mpg, but only for the past month.
 

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Hi salty; "SOC" means state of charge, and is simply the number of bars showing on your battery charge monitor.

The idea is, trying to keep it full or near full. Normally when the battery SOC is below about 3/4, it goes into forced charge, evidenced by aprox 3 green charging bars showing. Then when 3/4 full, it usually enters "hidden charge" where it's slowly charging, but no green bars are showing. At this point the "headlights on" trick seems to accelerate the process and get you to FULL a bit faster.

The point for MPG is, it takes substantial fuel/engine power to assist the charging process when the SOC is very low. Therefore, higher mpg is possible when you are not charging the battery back up to full.

This has been a point of debate for several years. But I can surely say, after owning 3 brand new Insights (total 155,000 miles) that with the 5-speed, that the BEST mpg is achieved by trying to NOT use electric assist and not having to earn it back. It's not easy, and takes patience. For example, climbing long hills on the freeway, one needs to downshift and let the car slow down, and keep it from using assist.
 

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I use the instruments to get the best mileage from my CVT Insight. In return, I consistently get 70-72 mpg per tank, with a lifetime average of 65.5 over 50,000 miles. The lifetime average is a bit lower than I'd like due to some high speed runs to Las Vegas and Palm Springs. But, typically I'm getting an easy 70 mpg on my daily commute, keeping the speed at around 60 mph and the tire pressure at 45 psi.

I sure wish it had lean-burn....
 

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I have been practicing very hard lately for the Tour de Sol/ 21st century automotive challenge and was averaging closer to 60-64 mpg over the last several weeks. At the event i got 78.9mpg in my CVT. So, yeah, i guess it is possible if i try really really really hard ;) It only took 16 months of ownership to "get it"
 

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... At the event i got 78.9mpg in my CVT.
... It only took 16 months of ownership to "get it"
Almost 79 MPG, not bad - not bad at all!

I've had mine since March of last year - and I'm still learning to!

Fred / Proud Owner of "The Silver Bullet"
 

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I was SHOCKED. Actually, the car's computer was reading in the low 70's (73?) but when the tank was refilled and the math done, it was much higher. I do the math everytime i fill her up and the math i do always puts the mpg's higher than the FCD. My husband, the auto mechanic, explained to me that the fuel mileage is calculated by something that floats in the tank and really is not accurate.

I cannot believe it took me this long to manage these mpg's. :)
 

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merigayle said:
My husband, the auto mechanic, explained to me that the fuel mileage is calculated by something that floats in the tank and really is not accurate.
NOT with an Insight. ;) Many people think that "accurate" should be 99.99% error free. Well it can be done but only with advanced precision instrumentation. Read: $,$$$ just for the MPG meter.

The Insight with OEM tires has been shown to be 97% "accurate" for most Insighters reporting. But there are the unexplained few...

HTH! :)
 

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From the factory ETM and the MPG gauge inputs it appears that its a calculated value based on known injector nozzel size and on time. The ECM calculates injector on time for every engine cycle. So a "known" amount of fuel is injected for a given injectors on time. But there must also be a factor for IMA assist, temperature and lean-burn too.

Just an "educated" guess as to the additional factors: ;)

Honda probably mapped out the Insight's predictable MPG parameters based on IAT, ECT, O2 (lean burn) and IMA assist in addition to the "coarse" injector on time values accessable from the ECM (engine computer). But there are other equally valid approaches that would work.

HTH! :)
 

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Somewhere along the process, the speed sensor will have to come into the calibration formula to get the distance?.

Willie
 
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