[CConrad]

In 10/2022 I was coming up on 100K and some messages came on for service. I hadn't had time to get it to the shop Due to the whole I have to go to work thing and get time off.
then driving to work on day - I felt the care stutter and hesitate on the interstate and then next thing I knew the engine light came on, I lost most of my rpms, had to quickly pull over and was stranded on the side of the road.

I had the shop come get the car and this is what they found:

1. All plugs burned up
2. Valves out of adjustment
3. Two coils bad

They Replaced all the spark plugs and coil boots
Replaced front/rear ignition coil
replaced iridium/platinum plug
Adjusted the valves
replaced Int. manifold set
And changed Valve cover gasket set

The same day I picked this car up and drove into town - the car engine light came on and blinked non-stop. I lost my RPMS and had to pull over on the interstate. I turned it off and turned it back on- the engine light went out. I took it back to the shop the same day and they said they needed to adjust the timing.

Since that day intermittently when I drive the car I will hear what sounds like a tapping sound and I feel the car stuttering, if I let up on the gas most of the time it straightens out. A couple of times it has happened where I lose my RPMs and can not get above 25mph and then engine light comes and blinks. In these instances when I pull off the road and turn the engine off and then back on again the engine light goes out and it works fine.

I took it to the Honda dealer and was told that the codes clear when you turn the engine off so we can't see anything wrong with it- that adventure cost me $160 to learn that. He told me you have to leave the car running and have a tow truck bring you in. I went out and bought a "BlueDriver Pro OBD2 Car Diagnostic Scan tool and have had it plugged in and waiting for this to happen again.

It finally happened again and I scanned the car with my Blue Driver device. The codes it gave me:

1. P0302 Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
2. P0303 Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
3. P0300 Random/Multiple cylinder misfire detected- blue driver says

I took it back to the shop that made the initial repairs today and they told me they can't do anything until they can read the codes.

According to the video series on blue driver when this happens intermittently the coils have to be checked while the car is running.
If a coil is unplugged and the engine stumbles it is not that coil.
If a coil is unplugged and the engine does not stumble it that that coil that is defective. ---then they said to check the coil with a multi-meter.

I do not think this morning they bothered to do the above things, but before I bring it back again I want to make sure that is the correct way to trouble shoot.


Thanks

Christine Conrad ( Frustrated beyond Belief)

 

[BruceinLA]

Where are you located?

 

[CConrad]

Where are you located?

Butner, North Carolina

 

[BruceinLA]

What year Insight do you have? Which transmission (CVT or Stick shift)?

 

[CConrad]

Where are you located?

What year Insight do you have? Which transmission (CVT or Stick shift)?

Year 2012/ automatic transmission

 

[BruceinLA]

I would start with new ignition coils and new spark plugs on that model, they are known weak points.

2012 models may also have an oil burning issue, inspection of ALL the spark plugs is needed, even if they are "new".

In any case a new mechanic is needed. The timing is NOT adjustable so that shop failed.

Are you taking it to a Honda specialist?

 

[CConrad]

They Replaced all the spark plugs and coil boots
replaced iridium/platinum plug
Adjusted the valves
replaced Int. manifold set
And changed Valve cover gasket set---this what they did in Oct.

No they are not honda dealers. When I took it to the honda dealer after takng it back ot the shop that worked on it they said: nothing that they could see was wrong with it and that in order for their computer to read the codes the car would would have to be towed to them running. when you turn the car off and back on it clears the computer codes

 

[BruceinLA]

Can you post a picture of the repair invoice?

 

[CConrad]

Yes I can

 

[Willie Williford]

I* think the dealer is giving you a smoke screen. How is the oil level or oil consumption in the vehicle. ((First sign something is drastically wrong)
$39.96 per plug..ouch!

 

[CConrad]

I* think the dealer is giving you a smoke screen. How is the oil level or oil consumption in the vehicle. ((First sign something is drastically wrong)

From the time I bought it- it has always sucked oil and I have read this is very common in this vehicle

 

[Willie Williford]

No, the vehicle needs new rings. Check for a possible warranty recall.

 

[BruceinLA]

OK, they replaced 2 ignition coils, you have 8, just like you have 8 spark plugs.

The other 6 ignition coils could still be malfunctioning.

I don't know where the new coils were installed, or what the codes were before that repair.

You found codes for misfire on cyls 2 and 3 so you still have misfire issues. The ignition coils for cylinders 2 and 3 can be swapped for the coils on cylinders 1 and 4 so see if that "moves" the misfire to a P0301/P0304 from what you had.

You said it "sucks oil" so a spark plug inspection is still in order to see if they are oil fouled.

 

[Markleon]

Christine, you need an honest and competent shop to work on the car. Their incompetence really makes me angry.
Willie might be right about the motor needing new rings, but BruceinLA is also right about the number of coils and sparkplugs a Honda uses.
Simply turning the motor off should not erase any codes, one must disconnect the battery or clear the diagnostic trouble codes with a scan tool. I believe they ripped you off, but you can be smarter than that!
First, learn more about how a motor works. For example, oil disappears in two ways: it can leak out, in which case, replacing the valve cover gasket might have been the correct thing to do, or it can "burn out" by entering the combustion chamber. Oil can enter the combustion chamber by getting past the rings (as Willie suggests) or oil can enter from the valve guides and valve stem seals. You can get a free scan at an auto parts store like Autozone. If you are burning a lot of oil inside the motor, as opposed to a leak, then you would probably get a code like PO420 which suggests that the catalytic converter has been contaminated by carbon soot. If you have misfire codes, then the correct procedure would be to identify which coils have gone bad, and which sparkplugs are fouled, and replace them.
All 8 Plugs should be replaced at the same time. A basic "compression check" would determine if the engine has good enough compression to run properly, or if there is a headgasket problem, for example. I do not know why they replaced the intake manifold gasket. I also do not know if there is a factory problem with Honda production, but checking for recalls would be as easy as doing a Google search for your year and model..
Most cars live well past the first 100k, so it is more likely that the coils are bad then the rings. Rings can wear out if the motor has been over-heated and they lose their "temper", meaning that they lose the "springiness" that makes them seal in the cylinder bore, or if the motor runs out of oil, or they become "impacted" in the ring grooves with carbon build-up. The shop did a lousy job, but they should at least be able to identify the new coils they installed. If sparkplugs become fouled, the motor will quit running and leave you stranded, and that is apparently what happened to you. It is hard to figure out everything that is going on in this forum, but there are a lot of really smart Insight members who can help point you in the right direction.

 

[Markleon]

Christine, just to be clear, Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) are stored in the computer's memory and it is "absolutely insane" to tell you that the motor needs to still be running. They misled you. They are Liars and cheats. Incompetent buffoons. That is why I am angry.
If you would like to learn more about the On-Board Diagnostics called OBD-ii, then check out this link. On-Board Diagnostic Test Reference - Bureau of Automotive Repair (ca.gov) This explains why the sensors collect information until it is "ready" for a DEQ Test. Sometimes a car must be driven quite a while under various road conditions before it is "ready" and that means there are no quick short cuts. I tried to check for Recalls and it appears that most Lawsuits are due to the idle-stop function.