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2004 Honda Insight: D16Z6, turbo'ed
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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
So I finally got the car thrown back together. She runs great! I'm back at 4psi for the time being, as I wanted to make sure everything is in good working order before giving it the goods!

The mounts feel really good, vibration is almost non-existent! Time will tell how well they hold up. I designed the rear mount solid, but by design it has "Spring" in it. I'm hoping it stays together ok.

The clutch is really grabby, chatters some, but that could also be the lighter flywheel and my clutch engagement. This clutch/flywheel combo is 7lbs lighter than the factory, 8lbs lighter flywheel but the clutch added 1lb. I will take shifts easy for the first 500 miles or so, as recommended.

One odd thing that happened, is now the car turns over FAST, like the freaking spark plugs aren't even in! Before it would lug really bad, almost to the point of not starting like the battery was dead. I'm thinking there might have been an issue with the starter/flywheel engagement earlier for some reason. I didn't take those apart when I put this motor in my car for the first time, so maybe an issue from the previous owner? I don't know, but I'm really happy it's working good now!

After a few days of soft driving, I will look back into my VTEC. It very well may be working, so I will turn VTEC off in Hondata, and see if the car gets slower! I should have done that from the get go, lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Update!! Almost died! Lol, just kidding! So I made a huge mistake. The driver's side motor mount was made vertically, but I didn't capture the top of the mount with a plate or washer, so the bolt almost dropped through! If the neoprene (or whatever material) bushing would have ripped, the whole engine would have dropped. Oops!

I've fixed this by stacking a few washers up to capture it. I will make a small disk with the proper size diameter and hole when I can get to a manual lathe.

Thanks for looking!
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Hey Guys! It's been quite a while since my last post! I have basically fallen off this site for random reasons, but I am still working with the car.

When I swapped out the clutch, I also did the rear main seal, but I re-used the oil pan gasket. Even with RTV put in the corners, I ended up with a really small leak somewhere, and it ended up destroying my new clutch. Oil doesn't even hit the ground, that is how small the leak is. So, I swapped back to the stock clutch, as it looked impeccable!

So, with it back to the factory clutch, I ordered another rear main seal, and new pan gasket. However, these will be put on when I build the engine over the winter.

I have Upped the performance a bit. Last personal best was [email protected], with about 9.5psi. I purchased a OmniPower 3 bar map sensor, and I switched the car to E85. I had it running at an assumed 14psi, with about 24-25 Degrees of timing. It was moving out! However, while tuning, it would develop a stutter. Replaced cap and rotor, took the spark plug gap down to .023", still stutter. I am almost positive I have hit the limit of the stock head bolts. I believe I am lifting the head at this power level. Verified by wonky coolant temps, and coolant being pushed out the radiator cap. in this capacity, I feel it's probably running in the high 11 second range. No times to back up this claim, just purely speculation based on the butt dyno and personal experience!

So, I said "assumed" 14psi, and I need to explain that. The new map sensor doesn't have specific values to offset it in Hondata like others do, like the 4 bar version from the same company (OmniPower 4 bar is in the drop down menu). I picked another brand of 3 bar under the drop down menu until the values were reasonably close. Where the stock map sensor read 9.5 psi, the new one reads 7.7 psi, on basically back to back runs. And on the new setup, I am running 12.2psi. So, assuming the factory sensor read "more" correct, I'm assuming 14psi.... Whatever the boost level, this is enough to demand 80% of the 750cc fuel injectors, which I haven't done the calculations on, but I'm estimating around 260whp. Which is borrowed time on a 100% stock engine.

Ok, all that aside, the car is running fantastic! Yesterday I switched back to the factory Map Sensor, and back to 4.2psi so I can run standard gas again for the winter. Losing 100whp sucks! Ha Ha.

Thanks for looking guys! When I start the engine tear down and rebuild, I will post plenty of pictures about the process. I'm planning a simple build, rods, pistons, new bearings and seals, a cam(I have it), and hopefully a 5858 Billet DBB turbo. Next year should be wild in this little rocket!

John
 

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Sweet build man! I put together a d17 stroked z6 in my 00 insight last year and it hauled with 152/124 at the tire out of the Na setup. I always wanted to do a simple turbo d16 in it. I feel like 200-220whp would be awesome in the car with a smaller turbo like a evo8 16g on it. If you built a simple rod and piston motor for it and went bigger on the fuel system I could see it doing 10’s with traction. My build thread was on Honda tech. I always had an axle vibration issue that drove me nuts but I should have mounted the engine toward the firewall by about another inch or so. If I built another one I will definitely make sure the mounts are perfect because that was my biggest issue by far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Oh I'm well aware of your build! It was awesome, and the main reason I went with my build! Besides the free civic anyway, lol.

I actually found some slightly shorter axles than the ones you used, and I know I'm really close on one side, but my car doesn't have any vibration, or any more than you would expect will more rigid mounts!

I'm doing a rods/pistons build here over the winter. Also I'll be redoing the mounts, again, haha. Plan is a 5858 billet turbo, more fuel, and probably a better intercooler. I think 10's should be decently easy since I already have slicks!
 

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Nice the vibration thing really drove me nuts. If I raised the car up it was pretty much gone but it looked really good low. I need to spend some free time reading through your thread, I kind of just glanced through it and was like sweet someone else did it then replied real quick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Hey guys, I'm halfway back at it with the D-sight.

I've started to tear down my spare D16Y7 block. For 235k miles, it looks pretty mint! Ok maybe not mint, but I think it looks great for the miles, ha ha. Exterior is absolutely discusting, but that's to be expected, lol. I have the entire block torn down to the bare minimum now. In the next couple weeks I will be deciding what bearings and pistons I want to go with. I like the idea of Vitara pistons, but I don't like the idea of 7.8:1 compression! I may actually go with an aftermarket forged piston, if I can get 9.0-9.5:1 with the stock length rods I have.
 

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Vitara builds are turds out of boost unless you mill the block or head about .040”. I’ve wanted to get another insight to build and do a d16 stroked to d17 with some vitaras but you have to mill about .035” off the top of the pistons. That being said with the d17 stroke and a z6 head they would come out to about 9.5 to 1 compression. Supertech makes some fairly cheap forged pistons in a more desirable comp ratio. I would definitely shoot for mid 9’s on compression and let the boost make the power. High comp turbo builds can be done, but most people don’t understand fully why the ones that work actually work and they end up with a knock limited high comp turbo motor from running 92pump gas on it and small duration cams
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
I haven't done too much research on how much compression the D series likes, but I don't think it likes a lot....

I'm ok with it being a dog out of boost, but if I can get 9.5:1 out of it, I think it will be fine with how light the chassis is. 9.5:1 on this engine, with a 5855, should be an incredibly fun vehicle to drive all around.
 

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I would say around 9.5 to 1 comp is the sweet spot. You can still run 20-25lbs of boost on pump gas depending on the turbo/ manifold and cam setup and it won’t be a turd out of boost. The 7.8 to 1 comp vitara cars I’ve tuned always feel gutless out of boost and usually take 4-6 more pounds of boost to make the same power as a car with a reasonable amount of compression. K series are a different animal. I was able to tune my buddys 13.9 to 1 k24 with drag cartel stage 4 cams on pump gas without any issues. Overall timing at wide open throttle ended up between 22-24 degrees depending on rpm with no knock count. That in a Dc2 teg would get 3rd gear rubber all the way to 9k.
 

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Also boost by gear will be critical for your insight. I’d start with a smaller wg spring like a 4 or 5lbs spring and run a Mac solenoid on it. Should be able to dial it up to around 20lbs for 4th gear, 15 or so for 3rd and what ever you can get it to hook in 2nd gear on. Boost by gear is a game changer for an overpowered fwd car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
It's roughly 4lbs on wastegate now. I was hoping to work on the awd setup but I don't think I'll get around to it. Ive never done rear suspension modifications, but I'm thinking a cantilever system may be in the future to make room for axles!
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
Ok guys, finally making a little progress on the build. I have the vitara pistons finally in the mail, maxpeedingrods forged rods, King rod and main bearings, 5855 ball bearing turbo, arp's, and a host of other random parts for this build.

I'm diving in and doing some measurements. The bores are all within spec, so I will be running the block as it is. I had to quit for the day, but next will be assembling the rod bearings in the rods and checking clearances to make sure they are good. Mains as well. This bottom end is a D16Y7 out of a 97 civic that I was given for free. It had 215k miles, and hadn't even worn through the top later of the bearings!

I purchased a MAC 4 port, so I'll be messing with that on the current setup in the car. That way it's one less thing to mess with when I throw the new engine in.

I also didn't want to make a new full 3" exhaust, and have to buy all new components, so I have decided to run a vacuum actuated 3" exhaust cutout, that i will incorporate into my 3" downpipe when I make it.

That's about it for now, thanks for looking!
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
Once again, time flies! I had to stop working on the built motor due to some rod bearings that were a little too tight for my comfort on a 400whp+ build. Now that my new bearings are in, I will get back to the engine build.

I'm really just updating on another mod I did to the car. I just threw on some 175lb 8X2.5" springs on the rear, and it seems to have helped the car from rocking as hard as it did when I get on the throttle. Other than that they seem to ride just like stock! I'll attach a couple photos for reference....

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
Another month, another update! I went of vaca for a bit, but I've been working on the car some. After picking up a spare insight, my insight now has Gaz rears, with GC coilovers. I left the front stock for now. The spare insight is actually wayyyyyy to nice to make into a trailer, which was my plan. So that will be on the back burner for another build!

I took the car to the track on some new street tires, 205/50-15 Nitto NT05's. Terrible track times, because that still wasn't good traction, and I was having an issue with the car hitting a cut for some reason. MPH is up quite a bit, at 112mph, but not a single pass was clean. I found out what the problem was, it was my lean protection, and the untuned portions of my fueling map....

So as the car sits, it's running 10psi on E85, with 23Deg of timing, and it flat out moves! The best 1/8th mph is 87.8mph, and the best 1/8th to 1/4 mph gain was 28mph. These were obviously on different passes, but I have no doubt had I not had the lean protection issue(fuel map issue actually), it would have hit 116+mph.

Sadly, with coaching Tball, and going to other ball games, time is at a premium! I won't make it back to the track on the stock engine again, at least I don't believe I will.

I have started to build the engine, Yesterday and the day before, I ground some clearance into the bottom of the cylinders to clear the rods. I also am clearancing the crank girdle as well for the same reason. It's a tedious process, but I want to retain as much material as possible on the girdle so I have to take my time with material removal. I will try to get some pics with the engine apart, so you can see where I am doing this work.

Anyway guys, I'll update again if anything good happens! Like maybe blowing up the stock engine, because you know, boost!
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
I worked on the engine for an hour yesterday before tball. The rotating assembly now spins freely, with about .050" clearance on the girdle, so I'm a happy camper!

I also reworked my tune on the fuel maps, to hopefully get the car running (almost) perfectly!

These are pics of the clearancing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Small update. Over the weekend when I had a little free time, I ground down my piston rings. I did not do this professionally.... Gap is as follows:

Top ring: .020"

2nd ring: .026"

Oil ring (top and bottom): .025"

There is always much debate on what these should be, especially with different hp goals planned. I went on what other D16 guys had found to work with their 400+whp Vitara piston builds.

All the rings are now on the pistons and clocked. When I get some more free time, I will put the rods and wrist pins on the pistons. They are a floating design, so no need to press them, just install the C-clips to capture the wrist pins. With the Vitara pistons, the arrow on the piston face must face the flywheel, because in the Vitara engine, the intake and exhaust valves are opposite that of the D16 engine.

Thanks for looking, more updates to follow!

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
Here are some pictures of progress....
 

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