[Guest]

I took my Insight to the dealer to have the oil changed. It appears they dumped all three quarts of oil in instead of just 2.6 quarts. The oil level on the dipstick is between 1/8th and 3/16ths of an inch above the upper dot.

Do I need to have the oil drained to bring it within range?

 

[Holicow]

Typical.

Take it back and have them do it right.

 

[Joe Griffo]

I had a similar problem. Ever since then I change it myself.

 

[Resist]

Always change your own oil. If you don't know how learn. Dealership service is known for messing things like this up.

 

[figgy]

They did the same for me. I now do it myself.

 

[Guillermo]

You must get them to remove the extra oil.
Too much engine oil can cause serious problems!

 

[Insightful Trekker]

I've been reading about oil overfills for a couple of years now on Insight boards.

After changing my own oil each time I found that (at least on the 02's) the 2.5q that the eariler models were proporting to be the precise refill amount was underfilling my car. It will depend on the "style" (read: basically size) of the filter you use.

So I began to dump the full 3 qts in. This overfills my 02 Insight about the amount you indicate.

It is true that overfilling to a high enough level can cause oil overheating. If the level is high enough in the crankcase the crankshaft must "push" oil out of its way while turning. "Foaming" (airation) is also theoretically ocurring. Although my understanding is that this would be the lesser of the two factors in an overfill situation.

So 1/8 - 3/16" in my 40K miles experience with the Insight has caused no perceivable problems. Nor given the "tolerance" of the oil level can I imagine it being an issue. Read: none of the above factors can come into play at this "overfill" level.

Theroretically it can be percieved as a benefit in that the total volume of oil is greater which in general will take a longer time for deteroiation. Although measuring such a minute difference will be impossible.

 

[ElectricTroy]

I hand my dealer 2 quarts of synthetic, and instruct him that's all I want. I then add the other half-quart myself.

 

[Holicow]

Whether it's actually doing damage is not the point...or the only point. It's unlikely that a small amount of overfill is enough to hurt anything, but it could.

The point is that the recommended oil level is clearly indicated by the manual and the dipstick. When they are done, it should be checked. If the level is not correct, it should be corrected. Period.

 

[Guillermo]

Remmember there are 2 little notches in the dip stick!
The oil level should be between the 2.
Everyone thinks it has to be at the top notch so if it's over it must be ok... It's not, that's why there are 2 notches so it's easy to stay in between them!
More oil is always worse, never better.

 

[Guest]

Hi All:

___Guillermo is dead on imho. I always specify just 2.5 quarts (not 2.6) go into the little beauty and that leaves the level between the marks. A fill to the top level isn’t bad (I would never ever go over) but I believe that a fill between the marks offers the best fuel economy. The fuel economy speaks for itself when filled half way between the full and add level.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1nw3dxuf][email protected][/email:1nw3dxuf]

 

[Guillermo]

Don't forget that when engine oil is put into the engine it's cold.
When it gets hot it will expand. So if it's slightly over the top notch when cold it will be way over when it's hot.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Guillermo wrote:

"More oil is always worse, never better."

and

"Don't forget that when engine oil is put into the engine it's cold. When it gets hot it will expand."


How so?

Is 1/32 "over" the line worse?

There is a _tolerance_ and as in most things automotive it isn't extremely precise (yes there are exceptions).

and

Liquid expanding when heated? Well yes, but you won't be able to see the difference on the dipstick (its _really_ that slight)


For the life of me I can't see this as one of the exceptions. And I've been doing it in my Insight for alomst 40K miles now so any "damage" must be minute.

 

[Yves M.]

Like other people have already written, the little amount over is not critical.

In order for the extra to be bad, it needs to be at a level where the crankshaft hits the oil while turning. So many hits will foam the oil and then it is not oil but the foam that is in the lubricating circuit (I know the foam is oil and air, but it does not permit to lubricate the engine parts well)

The little over would surely not be at a crankshaft level. Else just turning left or right would have a normal level oil being hit by the crankshaft. Some 'tolerance' is present

 

[Insightful Trekker]

xcel wrote:

"The fuel economy speaks for itself when filled half way between the full and add level."

Can't argue with a hyper-miler. <g>

But I'd rather save my anality for the MPG "video" game. (guess I don't have as much as some in here) <VBG>

 

[Guillermo]

The oil level does increase slightly when hot on the Insight.

On my previous car, 1998 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT, The dipstick had 3 notches, low, high when cold, and high when hot.
There was a large noticable difference in oil level when the 4.5 liters of oil in that car was hot.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Perhaps one of the best atributes of a message board is that the sum of the whole is greater than one or a few.

In otherwords I was hoping for some help in understanding, but if your going to make me do all the work...

<g>

An extensive Google search using "thermal expansion of oil" yielded this:


http://www.simplexdirect.com/Bulletins/TECHDATA.PDF

Thermal expansion of oil is approximately 1 cu in per gallon per 10F rise.

1 U.S. Gallon = 231 cu. in

So lets set up the scenairo: 50F ambient with oil temp reaching 200F (engine coolant and oil temps are usually within 1F)

equals 150F rise or 15 cu in per gallon or 6.49% (15/231)

I measure 18.5mm between the two holes on the Insight's dipstick. Therefore the rise on the dipstick is equal to 1.2mm or an increase of about 1/15th of the total distance.

Difficult to see and a minute "overfill" factor.

Guess my anality is showing a bit afterall. <VBG>

Nor can I use my standard HTH in closing. And unless someone can provide some hard numbers rather than anecdotal observations I am still of the same convictions. Overfill at these "levels" can do no harm nor damage and can "theoretically" (extremely remotely) be "benefical".

 

[Insightful Trekker]

And just to further explain I am not on some type of crusade.

It's just I read in here about so many "complaints" that are real. I have a difficult time standing by while fellow Insighter's joust with windmills.

This one comes up repeatedly. And I can't see its validity.

I'm through now. <g>

HTH!

 

[ElectricTroy]

Yeah it is strange. My Dodge Avenger takes 4.2 quarts and the dealer refills it perfectly eveytime. But the SAME dealer overfills my Insight.

Is it some sort of mechanic hatred toward the little car? If he can accurately measure the Dodge's oil, he should be able to accurately measure the Honda's oil.

So now I just fill it myself.

 

[Guest]

Hi Insightful Trekker:

___I don’t think anyone here is saying it is wrong or right to be a bit over the full mark but what I am pointing out is why overfill when half way up the stick up to full is the appropriate amount?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:1fsytbdq][email protected][/email:1fsytbdq]