[mjrogers]

I love my new insight, but seriously miss cruise control . I try to keep my silver spacepod at the speed limit, but have 2 challenges.

1. It wants to zoom. When going flat or downhill this light, spunky thing wants to fly :twisted: .

2. On the inclines I either overanticipate and overshoot, or not anticipate enough and slowly lose 'altitude. :? '

I believe it may be related to old habits of getting it in 5th gear and keeping it there. Should I be going into 4th when anticipating an incline? My daily route is fairly flat. I commute between Davis & Sacramento: the flatter part of the Sacramento Valley. Most of my 'hills' are man made bridges over rivers, duck flyways/rice farms, and interstates.

I am not capable of installing a second party cruise control. Has anyone had success having Honda install one?

Is there something about my driving habits that I can change?

 

[Atheos]

The shop I work at sells Rostra aftermarket cruise controls.
They have a cruise part# and throttle adapter for the insight, which
you can lookup at:
http://www.rostra.com/cruise-control.htm
I rarely have any Rostra units come back, and never had any
pulsating problems with rostra.
Disclaimer: I haven't installed one on my insight yet, and won't until I find a favorable OEM looking solution to the cruise switch. (yes, I've seen the steering wheel button add-on, and I think it looks like s#!t)
My advice to you is this.
Have a shop that specializes in cruise controls install this unit.
Leave the oil changes, and major mechanical work to the dealer cause they usually aren't equipt to install aftermarket products.
If your local dealership claims to do this kind of work, they will likely
just take your car to an aftermarket shop and mark up your ticket
considerably.
Niles

 

[Armin]

use assist wisely

mjrogers,

what I usually do is to place priority on maximizing efficiency instead of maintaining constant speed. I agree, it can be impossible to keep the needle pinned at exatly 65mph.

I usually keep the car in lean-burn, at around 70mpg, getting the maximum power lean-burn will give. A slight incline will make the car slow down. So I allow that for a bit, maybe down to 60mph. Then put more pressure on the accelerator to get assist (and drop into rich burn). If the incline is slight enough, this makes the car speed up. Do that until maybe 70mph and drop back into lean. repeat.

Because it uses lean-burn much of the time, this is more efficient than to just drop into rich and go up the hill at 50mpg (as cruise control would do). But it will annoy drivers behind you!

 

[Rick Reece]

Cruise Control

Phil Bachman Honda (Kingsport TN) installed my cruise control for no charge when I bought the car. Even though it is not Honda equipment it carries the same warranty since it was on the car when the purchase went through. No problems to date. Have fun, RIck

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<snip>

I rarely have any Rostra units come back, and never had any
pulsating problems with rostra.
Disclaimer: I haven't installed one on my insight yet, and won't until I find a favorable OEM looking solution to the cruise switch. (yes, I've seen the steering wheel button add-on, and I think it looks like s#!t)

<snip>

I too dislike any of the available cruise switch options. Have you looked at using a factory cruise on/off switch for a different Honda model? It should simply snap in one of the existing blanks.

The high dollar factory look alike (an option for 5spd's only) is to install an Insight CVT steering wheel and cable reel.

I looked but could not find enough information on the Rostras to determine if the switch contacts of the CVT functions (momentary to ground) would be compatable for the set/decel functions of a Rostra. The on/off functions of a factory main switch should not present a problem.

There is a detailed long post/thread in one of the old Yahoo Insight forums in regard to the rostra cruise fuctions.

What I remember of the thread is that you can usually "beat" a cruise's MPG ability except on long trips where driver fatigue factor sets in.

John K. Bullock
Knoxville, TN

aka. Insightful Trekker

 

[Tim Maddux]

Re: use assist wisely

mjrogers,
I usually keep the car in lean-burn, at around 70mpg...

I do the same, except I keep it at a minimum of 75mpg. I let the mpg drift higher if my speed exceeds 65 mph. If my speed drops below 55mph, I put the pedal down -- not all the way, just enough to nearly max assist and that puts my MPG down to around 50 (at highway speeds). Flooring it halves MPG for not much more acceleration.

There's all sorts of mileage tips on the main site. Use your instantaneous mpg readout and respond to the feedback it gives you... let your Insight teach you how to get over 70 mpg lifetime

http://www.insightcentral.net/KB/faq-efficiency.html

 

[Atheos]

Insightful Trekker,

I had exactly what you mentioned in mind.
I was thinking about these two options:

1. Use a different honda steering wheel, which would have OEM
cruise buttons.
Lots of downsides to doing this though. First, I really like the 3 spoke
wheel on the insight, and I don't know of another similar honda wheel.
Second, this is an expensive route, and who knows about compatibility
issues until you start tearing things apart.
I was thinking the new honda civic wheel would look nice, epecially if I were
to convert the entire column. (tilt wheel, ya!)
There could be some airbag safety issues to this. I'm sure the airbag
is finely tuned to the exact suroundings of the drivers compartment, and
using an airbag from a different model may be a hazard.

2. use the CVT buttons, and silkscreen the set/accell - coast letters on
the buttons. Use an accord cruise on/off (mid 90's and up) switch above the pocket/fuse cover on left side of the dash which will be an exact fit.
This would be the nicest route, and probably wouldn't require many parts.
Next time I get over to the dealership parts department, I'll dig up whatever parts I'll need.
I would imagine the manual wheel and column are the same, minus a few
parts and I'll probably get a chance to remove the wheel this weekend to confirm this.
As far as wiring, it shouldn't be an issue and I'll post a simple schematic of whats involved when I get a chance to install my cruise.

 

[puck]

Cruise Control vs. MPG

:arrow: What does cruise controll do for MPG :?:

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<replied inline>

Insightful Trekker,

>I had exactly what you mentioned in mind.
>I was thinking about these two options:

>1. Use a different honda steering wheel, which would have OEM
>cruise buttons.
>Lots of downsides to doing this though. First, I really like the 3 spoke
>wheel on the insight, and I don't know of another similar honda wheel.

I have read that the S200 uses the same wheel, at least in style.

>Second, this is an expensive route, and who knows about compatibility
>issues until you start tearing things apart.

Older wheels may be a serious compatablity problem especially in regard to the column trim just behind the wheel. Thats where the CVT Insight's steering wheel should shine


>I was thinking the new honda civic wheel would look nice, epecially if I were
>to convert the entire column. (tilt wheel, ya!)
>There could be some airbag safety issues to this. I'm sure the airbag
>is finely tuned to the exact >suroundings of the drivers compartment, and
>using an airbag from a different model may be a hazard.

I don't believe the compartment is a design factor. However, the airbag connector and how the squib interfaces with the airbag control unit may very well be a serious problem.

>2. use the CVT buttons, and silkscreen the set/accell - coast letters on
>the buttons.

Well, the CVT system comes labeled in a oversize single letter "S" and "D". Close enough for speed-up <g> and decel for me.


> Use an accord cruise on/off (mid 90's and up) switch above the pocket/fuse cover on left side of the >dash which will be an exact fit.

<snip>

>As far as wiring, it shouldn't be an issue and I'll post a simple schematic of whats involved when I get a chance to install my cruise.

My lack of knowledge in this area is in relation to what a Rostra cruise needs in a switch signal for its accel/decel signals. The rest is simply whether or not you want to spend the bucks. <?>

John K. Bullock
Knoxville, TN

aka. Insightful Trekker

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Re: Cruise Control vs. MPG

:arrow: What does cruise controll do for MPG :?:

From whe I remember reading in an old Insight Yahoo forum; on long trips where driver fatigue sets in the cruise usually can "beat" you. Otherwise you can beat it by a few MPG.

John K. Bullock
Knoxville, TN

aka Insightful Trekker

 

[mjrogers]

puck wrote:

What does cruise control have to do with mpg?

My understanding is that acceleration uses much more energy than velocity. So, if you accelerate once and maintain it you use less energy than if you re-accellerate to get back to where you were.

I haven't taken physics since college ['78 Cornell], but I do remember F=ma [Force = mass * acceleration]. So the less acceleration, the less force, the less fuel used.

The insight complicates this because if the assist kicks in than the fuel used is electric and not fossil, but ii think in the long term it works out.

Also, i like cruise control because it makes me much more predictable to the cars around me. And I find predictability highly correlated with safety.

 

[ncnightowl]

cruise control

Richard Reece gets 100 mpg with his cruise control setup. It includes a custom made throttle strap that maintains a certain level of throttle at all times; for example, it will not allow the gas pedal to come all the way up on a downhill. This allows conservation of momentum and thus better mpg. I have seen the setup personally; he did a great job.

 

[jameskb]

believe it may be related to old habits of getting it in 5th gear and keeping it there. Should I be going into 4th when anticipating an incline? My daily route is fairly flat. I commute between Davis & Sacramento: the flatter part of the Sacramento Valley. Most of my 'hills' are man made bridges over rivers, duck flyways/rice farms, and interstates.
...
Is there something about my driving habits that I can change?

mjrogers;
I started a new thread that might be of some help to you, "Denying the Diamond". I've found on a low-speed (30-50mph) hilly 2-lane section of the daily commute, if I drop down to 4th gear and just drive while ignoring the upshift diamond, I get BETTER mileage, not worse....

During deceleration, the diamond goes out, regeneration kicks in, and I don't have to touch the brakes at all to slow down reasonably quickly. But if I need to accelerate, I can also do so without dropping mileage too bad or commanding too much assist from the electric motor.

I put this observation to the group because it contradicts some of what's in the mileage FAQ. So I am not sure what to think just yet and would like to hear about the experiences of others...

Please note that I'm driving around on 50psi in the tires, and I check 'em about every three days now. I have one tire that'll lose air quickly and just one low-pressure tire will kill your mileage handily.

Try it out on your next trek through your hilly route: drop to 4th, ignore the diamond and drive for maximum mpg. Please let us know how you do.

JKB

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<snip>


Please note that I'm driving around on 50psi in the tires, and I check 'em about every three days now. I have one tire that'll lose air quickly and just one low-pressure tire will kill your mileage handily.

<snip>

JKB

Sounds like a punctured tire to me. Yes, the higher inflation pressure looses air faster. My experience is 2-3 psi every 6-8 weeks in all four.

John K. Bullock

aka. Insightful Trekker

 

[Armin]

Re: Cruise Control vs. MPG

What does cruise controll do for MPG?

As I said in my earlier post, you can optimize use of lean-burn, if you don't try to keep the speed exactly constant. Cruise control does the opposite: it optimizes for constant speed while neglecting mpg. It knows nowthing about lean burn.

With cruise control, you could easily be running in rich burn, even if conditions would allow for lean-burn. But the cruise control won't coax the car into lean (you have to lift the gas slightly to get lean-burn started, then return to maintain speed).

How much does this add up to mileage-wise? Did anybody who has cruise-control do a true comparison?

 

[mjrogers]

Steadier speed when tires inflated to OM's psi.

I checked my tires for the first time since buying my Insight. Whoa, the dealer had >50 psi in all 4 tires. I adjusted back to OM's psi and have found it much easier to maintain speed limit. I compared the gas mileage on my daily highway 'segment;' mpg went down from 71 mpg to 69.5 mpg. I'm more than willing to sacrifice 2% of excellent mpg to get improved safety [less risk of a blow out, and more predictable speed to my fellow travellers.]