Honda Insight Forum banner

1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We bought a new 2010 Insight on February 27. I have to say I am disappointed with it. I am still on the first tank of gas, but my average MPG is only 28.5 although the EPA sticker said 40 in town and 43 on the highway! We have driven 187 miles since picking it up, mostly but not entirely in stop and start traffic. I have been very careful to drive only in ECO mode, I don't turn the heat on right away and generally try to keep it "in the green" as much as possible. Any thoughts as to why there is such a big discrepancy between the advertised mileage and my real world results so far? I feel like I compromised on quite a few things I would normally want in a new car in order to get the higher MPG, but now I don't even have that. Thanks in advance for any tips on how to achieve the kind of mileage they claim it gets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
My trips between work and home are very short in stop and go traffic. In the cold weather I get about the same MPG going to work in the morning. I often go home for lunch and the MPG is about 32mpg, however on the way back from lunch I can easily get 40-45mpg. As I am taking the same route with about the same traffic I can only conclude having the engine up to temp and a good charge on the battery makes a world of difference. On the weekends when I go for longer drives I can get up and around 50mpg on a trip without much effort.

I'd suspect you are running to the same thing? I figure overall I use 1/3 the gas my last car used for the same amount of driving. So 28-30mpg on a cold morning with a cold engine and battery is doing really good for me :) You can expect your MPG to improve as the engine breaks-in too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hi JimJohnD, thanks for the quick reply. I also have a fairly short commute - 6 miles one way, and I have done a couple trips of about 15 or so miles on the highway, but I have never seen anything near 50 mpg at any time. In fact the mpg just seems to go down every day. When we first got the car it was around 35mpg and every time I check, it is the same or lower than last time. I have never seen it go up in relation to the previous time I looked. I wonder when it will hit bottom? I guess I'll find out soon enough. Since the weather has been warmer this week I thought that would make a bit of a difference or at least put it back in the 30's but so far no such luck. I think I got taken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
It is 'finally' getting warmer here. I don't remember at what temp the MPG started falling off to know when to see it rise again. I do know that my car likes to run at about 178-ish degrees (F) when warmed up. It is lucky to get to 150 during the week under normal trips in the cold weather. I've taken to using a slightly longer route to work and the average has come up. I have only had mine since September so I'm really looking forward to spring, apparently our cars are too :rolleyes: Still, way better than my last car.

P.S. I bought a ScanGaugeII that plugs into the OBDII port that I use for the Temp gauge. It is a really useful little device.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
685 Posts
Do you realize that this is the first generation (2000-2006) Insight mpg forum and you have a second generation Insight??

You'd probably get more help if you posted this in the second generation mpg forum below.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,752 Posts
red1dr
Why...........I hope most Insighters read all the posts, you never know what knowledge or confusion you pick up. (at least you and I do.)

Willie
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,391 Posts
red1dr
Why...........I hope most Insighters read all the posts, you never know what knowledge or confusion you pick up. (at least you and I do.)

Willie
You make a great point Willie. I think if the Gen 2 crowd paid more attention to the posts of how we achieve top MPG that they could learn quite a bit of the same things we've collectively learned and shared through experience. We would probably less people trying to use their assist aggressively through the 'EV mode' through 1/2 or more of their SOC only to realize wasted power as it gets regenerated while driving later rather than using it in small recoverable amounts using regenerative braking. Same goes for tire pressures, but they will catch on. Tire pressure is -huge- even my 95 Prizm with a 1.8 liter engine based on a design that they started using back in 1983 went from 35 MPG to the 40's, as high as 43 MPG(34 MPG highway EPA) after raising the pressure beyond the vehicle manufacturer recommendations during the summer with everything else being as close to the same as possible.


FormerMermaid, Check your tire pressure, the higher the better, sidewall max is usually a good safe place to start. It affects handling, noise, ride feel, and traction a little bit but your MPG will be better. Cold weather causes MPG to be much worse for any gas engine, it should improve when things warm up. The time when the engine is still warming up will also cause an MPG hit, the short trips don't help with the numbers, but don't forget that it's also positive that since it's a shorter trip, it's less total gas and less cost anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
I hope most Insighters read all the posts
I know I have :D There is hours of reading here. Anyone who doesn't listen to up to 10 years of experience is really missing out.

I missed the forum all together myself :rolleyes:

Still, MN Driver makes a good point. I have been switching between MID screens, Instantaneous MPG and Power distribution being my favorite, and learn new things every day. Sometimes you can get a lot of data but little real information. After reading some of the experienced posts in these forums the MID's data can be a lot more informative.

As a side note, the Knowledge Base could use some updating. There are some very good driving technique threads that could be edited to make for some required reading. I have the I2 Service Manual, and there are a few DIY tips that could be useful from resetting the Auto-Up on the driver's door, running a diagnostic on the Heating/AC system to accessing the satellite information on the Navigation system (a function I'm used to from my old Garmin e-Map). The New MIMA thread could use a technical section all by itself:)

Use less fuel, have more fun, drive an Insight :cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
New Insight EX getting less than 30 mpg in city

We bought a new 2010 Insight on February 27. I have to say I am disappointed with it. I am still on the first tank of gas, about a quarter tank left, but my average MPG is only 28.5. We have driven 187 miles since picking it up, mostly but not entirely in stop and start, city traffic iin western Pa. I have been very careful to drive only in ECON mode, I don't turn the heat on right away and generally try to keep it "in the green" as much as possible. Any thoughts as to why there is such a big discrepancy between the advertised mileage and my real world results so far? I feel like I compromised on quite a few things I would normally want in a new car in order to get the high MPG, but now I don't even have that. Thanks in advance for any tips on how to achieve the kind of mileage they claim it gets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
728 Posts
Automakers always leave some fuel economy on the table. Although modifying the nut behind the wheel (that's you!) is the most fruitful, you can also improve the aerodynamics, mass, and coefficient of rolling resistance of any car ever sold.

Start with an upper grille block (with plexiglass and zipties, maybe), add some rear wheel skirts, pump up the tire pressure, and throw away the rear floor mats.

If you seldom heat up the friction brakes (which I certainly hope is the case), you can install smooth wheel covers for better aerodynamics. Maybe you'll find it within your skill level to replace an external mirror or two with something more aerodynamic.

With your short commute, you definately want an engine block heater so you don't waste so much fuel warming up the engine. My Insight gets ~45mpg when I go shopping a mile away, even though it gets 61mpg on the old EPA city cycle.

Time to get modding, I think!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
You car is new, give a bit to break in, mileage will go up bit after a few 1000 miles

It it winter time (near the end), less mileage in the winter, warmer weather better mileage

Check your time pressure, make sure it is at recommended (34 PSI I beleive)

How long is your commute? Shorter trips the car may not be fully warmed up and thus less mileage.

Start and stop definately eats into mileage, make sure you coast up to the stop to offset the start and acceleration. Coasting doesn't burn any fuel and regens the battery. So, maybe some slight driving adjustements can help as well.

The car can get claimed EPA and even >50 MPG.

You can check other Insights and mileage here:

Fuelly | Share and Compare Your MPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
My commute is 6 miles one way. I don't understand why I should only expect to get the advertised EPA if I am driving longer distances. What is the minimum distance I have to drive to get it to perform as advertised? They should include a disclaimer or something to say you can't expect to get these numbers if you don't drive more than x number of miles every day. And RobertSmalls, are you seriously suggesting I need to spend more money on a brand new car and modify it with zip ties to get the advertised mileage?? (Sorry if that was intended as a joke.) Shouldn't it do at least the minimum MPG all by itself? I have been extremely careful to coast to all stops, pull out slowly, etc. My husband is more of a "zoom and slam" driver but I have not let him behind the wheel yet precisely because I know his driving style will wreck my MPG number.
Jraynor196, thanks for the link, I signed up at fuelly.com, seems like a great site, but I felt worse when I saw how much better other Insight owners are doing with their gas mileage compared to mine.
When I drove out of the dealership with a full tank of gas the range said 455. Now that I am down to a 1/4 tank, I have driven 223 miles and the range says 74. That means I went from 455 projected miles to about 300! Could there be something wrong with my car? I sent an email to my dealership but they aren't answering.
Also, could someone explain to me what happens during this break-in period to allow it to get higher MPG after a few 1000 miles? What changes?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Also, could someone explain to me what happens during this break-in period to allow it to get higher MPG after a few 1000 miles? What changes?
If you Google 'engine break-in' you'll find all of the technical information on what is happening. It may be easier to think of it this way, when you buy a new pair of leather shoes everything fits properly and is in the correct place but you are not likely to run very efficiently in them. Once they are worn for a few months everything is still in the same place but you can run much more easily. The main function of the engine break-in is to seat the piston rings but during this time all of the mating surfaces smooth out and create less friction.

The Owner's manual says the break-in period is for the first 650 miles, but as has been stated, it can take longer depending on use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
162 Posts
I am not so convinced on this break in mileage increase. I track my mpg on fuelly and I plotted my mpg in excel using 28 fuel ups spanning 10,500 miles from the start of ownership. A linear extrapolation actually shows an essentially flat slope throughout. True, my first 4 fuel up produced some of my lowest numbers but that was because other family members were driving the car at the time.

So to the OP. Someone is not right about your situation. Either your car is a lemon, you aren't driving efficiently, or maybe the tank was not full in the first place. Please track your mileage as 1 data point is statistically meaningless. Focus on driving efficiently, and keep us updated.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
My commute is 6 miles one way.

And RobertSmalls, are you seriously suggesting I need to spend more money on a brand new car and modify it with zip ties to get the advertised mileage?? (Sorry if that was intended as a joke.) Shouldn't it do at least the minimum MPG all by itself? I have been extremely careful to coast to all stops, pull out slowly, etc. My husband is more of a "zoom and slam" driver but I have not let him behind the wheel yet precisely because I know his driving style will wreck my MPG number.

When I drove out of the dealership with a full tank of gas the range said 455. Now that I am down to a 1/4 tank, I have driven 223 miles and the range says 74. That means I went from 455 projected miles to about 300! QUOTE]

I can help with a few of these:

The 6 mile commute this time of year is a mileage drag. My son-in-law get less than 38 mpg during the week because his drive to work is even shorter. You need to take a trip in warm weather to get some better numbers. If you were driving an Accord on that round trip you'd be lucky to get 24 mpg.

The zip tie modifications will allow you to easily exceed EPA numbers. They're usually invisible and you don't have to do them if you don't want. Here's the easiest modification: Firm up the tires. Add 4 lbs to each and see if you can notice a difference in ride. Then add a couple more. I've been running my tires hard since the mid-1980's, I used to get 44+ mpg on a Dodge Omni.

A driving style between your's and your husband's would be best. You actually want to accelerate to the cruising speed relatively quickly. You don't have to "drive like grandma" because it's a mild hybrid. There's no EV mode so get your initial acceleration done in a reasonable time.

The range is constantly adjusting by using the mileage and consumption to recalculate the best projection of range. My wife has a 10 mile commute, she gets about 24 mpg during the week. If we take her CRV on the highway and put 20 miles on it getting close to 30 mpg it'll show more range than when we started. It's recalculated on the highway mileage. Best bet: add fuel at a quarter tank.

Again I must ask: do you live in the Northern half of the U.S.?

Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for all your comments. Brian, as stated in a previous post, I live in Western PA. You say your son-in-law's commute is shorter than mine and he gets "less than 38 mpg". How much less? I'm getting 28-29 on a longer commute so I'm not sure I see your point, unless he's actually getting less than 28.
I will try adding some air to the tires. I'm not interested in exceeding the EPA numbers, I just want to get somewhere in the neighborhood of them so I don't feel like I made a big dumb mistake in buying this car. I would be more than satisified with 36-40 mpg. It does not help to say if I had an Accord I'd be lucky to get 24 because if I had an Accord I would have other things like a more comfortable ride and a smoother running engine to offset the lower MPG. Now I have none of those things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
685 Posts
I don't understand why I should only expect to get the advertised EPA if I am driving longer distances. What is the minimum distance I have to drive to get it to perform as advertised? They should include a disclaimer or something to say you can't expect to get these numbers if you don't drive more than x number of miles every day. And RobertSmalls, are you seriously suggesting I need to spend more money on a brand new car and modify it with zip ties to get the advertised mileage??
The EPA numbers aren't guaranteed by the automaker. They're the result of laboratory testing under government-stipulated conditions which supposedly simulate typical driving. They were intended to form a basis for comparing different cars' fuel economies when shopping for cars and were instituted because automakers were making wild claims of mpg. And AFAIK automakers are REQUIRED to list EPA numbers so that people can see them; they aren't strictly "advertising".

Unfortunately, in people's minds EPA numbers have come to be guaranteed mpg's, and some (not you) even think that no matter how they drive they will get EPA mpg.

The reality is that any car will deliver a range of mpgs depending on how it is driven and the driving conditions (length of trips, terrain, speeds, temps, winds, etc). The first generation MT Insights are particularly sensitive: in daily use some people average 40mpg or less while others manage 95mpg. And winter/summer does matter both due to temps and to changes in gas composition: I bottom out around 80mpg in the winter and max around 100mpg in the summer, which is a huge and frustrating swing.

Without seeing how you drive and what the conditions are it's hard to know what to suggest. Increased air pressures will certainly help somewhat, as will keeping to speed limits on secondary roads and if possible below the max on highways. The biggest factor is usually driving style. Hybrids are different from gas-only cars, and if anything their mpg is more sensitive to driver inputs. So there's a learning curve (after nearly four years I'm still learning how to drive the Insight-I better).

You can glean driving tips from searching the forums here and at cleanmpg (dot) com , which specializes in fuel-efficient driving. At first it may seem very confusing and some of the methods may seem scary. So DON'T try anything that you don't feel comfortable trying and ALWAYS test something new in a safe place, such as a huge empty parking lot or a deserted back road, before trying it in normal driving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
FormerMermaid,

Reset your "A" average fuel economy display to zero
(Page 76 in manual )
Go on your normal commute.
Check your average MPG when you reach your desination
( Page-82 in manual )
Repeat the above procedure for your return commute.
Report back to the group what the new average MPG is.

This will give us some info to start with -

Tnqr-Toy's Dad
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
My advice would be to first check your tire pressures. I found my wife's Insight pressures were 30 psi, below the recommended 33 psi. The dealer obviously didn't check pressures on the new car inspection. I raised them to 35 psi, which is still well below the 38/36 psi I use in my Prius front/back tires. Tire pressure has a lot to do with gas mileage. The other thing is breaking a new car in--don't rely on your first few tankfuls. And watch the white bars driving in the eco mode. Keep them from overlapping the hashmarks on accelerating.

On the Insight, there is also an mpg monitor for your last four trips. Check it after a trip. It will tell you your mpg for the trip and the last 3 trips.. I think my wife was in the 40s for two long trips with highway miles (30 miles or so), and in the 30s for short trips ( 5 mi.) to the store.
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top