[countchocula]

I was wondering if, when the Insight's battery pack goes bad, is it possible to replace it with one from the Civic Hybrid? The reason I would want to do this is, I would think that the Civic Hybrid pack would be less expensive than a replacement Insight pack.

 

[Holicow]

Well, the specs are the same, so I guess it might be possible.

Have you asked your dealer for the part numbers? If they are the same, that would be your answer. Even with the same specs, there may be some differences, say in the connectors, etc.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

The simple answer is no.

The complex answer is maybe the batteries themselves would. Or "bare" OEM batteries, of which there is an available supplier but the task is not trivial or possibly even do-able.

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 1a188c95aa

One recent thread that discussed other related issues is:

http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/vie ... 95aa#11659

Use the forum search feature to look for several others.

HTH!

 

[Holicow]

The simple answer is no.

The complex answer is maybe the batteries themselves would. Or "bare" OEM batteries, of which there is an available supplier but the task is not trivial or possibly even do-able.

Apparently the HCH battery is physically a little smaller, but consists of the same arrangement of single cells, with the same overall voltage. I could foresee a possible connector issue, but assuming that could be overcome, perhaps you could explain why it would not work as a unit. Thanks.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

I have completely disassembled my battery pack (components only) due to an accident. Then Civic IMA pack is physically different. It would require different mounting. While I've not compared the measurements, assuming that it would fit the hole left by the Insight's OEM pack the trim may not fit without additional modification. The battery module
itself is physically much different. It must be securely mounted with the correct air ducting for cooling. This will require extensive modification.

But the greatest points in this regard is the difference in the capacity. As I remember (and I have not researched this for this posting) the IMA system for the HCH is of a greater capacity. Maybe the battery pack is the same capacity, but the MCM & BCM logic would be different again, if my memory on this point serves me.

With today's technology its almost never a case of whether or not something is do-able. Its a question of cost. Since the OP's point was of cost I believe I've already raised enough points to confirm that its prohibitive.

The low cost option will be a DIY of the batteries only. The issues there will be of cost savings vs. long term reliability. e.g. matching the individual battery module's capacity, swapping the thermosensors, not getting fried with 140v in the process etc.

HTH !

 

[Holicow]

Interestingly, I have found that the capacity of the HCH battery is actually lower than the Insight's (6.0 vs 6.5 Ah). This is directly from the specs at honda.com

This is all just an exercise since we don't know the actual cost of either replacement.

Let's assume for discussion that the HCH battery costs 1/2 of the Insight's. Do you think it would be possible to disassemble the HCH battery, essentially to scavenge the single cells, and then replace the old with the new ones?

 

[Insightful Trekker]

I think the whole point is we're missing the point.

DIY of off the shelf batteries would be the lowest cost option. And since cost is always the question I don't see the added value of an HCH module especially since we've collectively determined its not a good fit either by capacity or physical size.

Did you read my links to past threads?

Actual cost for the Insight's module is $2,900.00. (ouch) I checked in February of this year. And I can't imagine that the HCH module will be much cheaper.

See you in some other thread!

 

[b1shmu63]

The only advantage that I can see is if you mounted the Civic battery upright behind the seats as is done in the Civic, you would free up a terriffic amount of useable space in the hatch. The center of gravity would also move forward slightly giving you a little more weight capacity as well. It would also be easier to service I suspect.This would be a nice aftermarket idea for some future entrepreneur. The Insight won't rust away so there will still be Insights on the road for decades.

 

[Holicow]

I think the whole point is we're missing the point.

Don't follow ya, here...

DIY of off the shelf batteries would be the lowest cost option. And since cost is always the question I don't see the added value of an HCH module especially since we've collectively determined its not a good fit either by capacity or physical size.

Perhaps the 3rd party batteries MIGHT be the cheapest (who really knows) but the cells in an IMA battery have already been tested and matched, and we know they are the right ones.

As for the capacity, although I am not an expert by far, I don't think that a small difference in total capacity would be a big problem. We aren't looking to make it "new", just functional. The capacity of the original battery declines over time, anyway, right?

Did you read my links to past threads?

Sure did. In one, you wrote:

The problem in a DIY replacement of the _batteries_ in the pack is *matching* each cell. No matter how you approach it the pack will be "live" with 144v as you disassemble it. And the thermal sensors that attach to each cell group must be transferred to the new cells.

As I point out above, getting an intact battery would bypass this requirement and expense (even if only in time, if one has the ability to do this testing).

We don't know exactly what cells are being used in the packs (or do we?). If we use the cells from an assembled pack, then we know they are right, and have been tested.

The HCH uses the same number of cells. I believe they are in the same arrangement. Is this true?

Actual cost for the Insight's module is $2,900.00. (ouch) I checked in February of this year. And I can't imagine that the HCH module will be much cheaper.

But we don't know the cost of the HCH pack yet, do we? If it is the same, or only slightly less, nevermind. If it is half the price, then I do think this possible option should not be dismissed so readily.

See you in some other thread!

OK. Does anyone else have any opinion on this?

 

[b1shmu63]

The Civic battery pack is only 4 inches thick so they must have assembled the batteries in a different configuration.