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I don't quite know what to say in a diplomatic sense. It certainly isn't true that the veterans are unwilling to help. As one example of many, I point to this LTO design thread:


Just scan the thread and count the number of times that our most accomplished veteran, retepsnikrep, answered questions and contributed to that thread. No reasonable person could call him unhelpful. In fact he has made numerous contributions to this very thread also.

I, as a veteran, have also written numerous posts both here and elsewhere in attempts to help. klr3cyl, Natalia, Bulldog and rainsux have all helped people, though in somewhat "humanly" different styles.

But there exists on the forum "conceptual" rabbit holes where one can post many times and get no closer to an answer than when begun. This thread is a bit of a rabbit hole. The original goal was a Drop-In Lithium battery that could simply be installed in place of the original NiMH pack. After 5 months and 180 posts, that objective isn't really any closer than when first begun.

Sorry, that's the way I see it.
 

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2000 Honda Insight, manual transmission
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Discussion Starter #182
I thought this was to be a group effort. I've provided all the Li-ion options according to your requests. To suggest this thread has been a failure is not fair or kind. If you really feel I've not been helpful, then please remove all of my posts.
 

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None of us want the cars to be junked or people to become disgruntled.

But these projects are simply not as easy as people envisage.
If they were we would have had drop in lithium ten years ago.

Honda spent millions designing the car and the battery packs etc.
We can't achieve that level of integration, sophistication and drop in simplicity with a Lithium conversion on virtually zero budget.

It will take significant commitment of effort time and resources to make progress.
I've given masses of technical input to the thread but simply don't have the time or financial resources to do much else at present.

Of course you can do a conversion using any cells you acquire in any way you see fit.
 

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Honestly, the only one who proposed that this be a committee effort was you yourself. The goal was yours, the rest have already been through the idea of a drop-in pack and know the serious difficulties of building a safe, properly managed pack for mass consumption - not to mention legal issues. The best qualified people are already busy with projects and can't take tons of time to work this out(I have already spent a couple of hours contemplating this thread this morning and I have two other projects of my own). I think that folks were willing to make suggestions, but those suggestions were not equivalent to "requests." Pretty sure that has been said at least once. It is and has always been your baby.

I think that in view of the seemingly illusive objective, the substantial time demand, and the seemingly different work styles, I for one am going to drop out. No hard feelings on my part, I just have too many other time demands. I certainly don't feel that you have been unhelpful, but the project is much more complicated than just finding the battery material.:)

No one is going to delete any of this. It has been an interesting discussion and it goes a long way toward showing why a drop in conversion is so difficult.

Later: Crossed with retepsnikrep
 

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I apologize, it seems I reignited tensions by mentioning that I had a similar experience to Olympia-WA. That was certainly not my intent. Regardless, this discussion is about batteries.

I don't see a "drop in" replacement being feasible, but a kit-based system with a properly built battery pack and electronics with instructions on how to replace the NMH system is certainly attainable. That being said, (And this is where I think you're at odds with everyone here offering your lithium experience) the battery cells are the EASY part. There are several chemistries that are a good fit, and numerous places to get them either new or used. I have thousands of pounds of batteries and could have a 50S pack built for the Insight by next week, but integration with the IMA system, and how to handle the functions of a BMS is the difficult and time consuming part.

I'll keep an eye on this thread for more technical information and contribute if I'm able, but I think it's best if I work on my design alone. I apologize again for any ruffled feathers.
 

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I think it's best if I work on my design alone. I apologize again for any ruffled feathers.
I think that's a shame as we are always very interested in people who actually do stuff. :)
So I ask you to reconsider and start a thread to document your progress and ideas.

You haven't ruffled my feathers. :cool:
 
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