[kari]

I got my first CEL on friday with about half a tank of gas and 4,100 miles on my new 2006. I hoped maybe the gas cap hadn't been tightened enough (I live in NJ, where you're not allowed to pump your own gas) but took it into the dealer and waited for 3 1/2 hours for them to check the code (had to wait for the special hybrid technician to free up).

Anyway, I'm told that "one of the engine computers" was broken (which one? I say, and they told me the ECM) and the catalytic converter was also gone. He said that they're not sure which failed first and contributed to the other failure. they ordered new parts and told me not to go on any long trips. (!!) I should have told him that the last time I was in a car with a faulty cat it burst into flames, mechanics always loosen up a little when you tell them your slightly-related horror stories.

anyway, I'm bummed that my BRAND NEW CAR (first new car, too!) has this problem so early! I do wonder if this is the reason I have a weird "scooting" feeling when I'm driving on the highway, like, a little burst of speed that goes away immediately, and without the assist lighting up, and also if this is why my mileage is low (I'm getting about 54 mpg with a 5-speed, though I'm sure it's down a little b/c it's cold, and I haven't overinflated the tires yet, and I do drive kind of fast occasionally). Plus, I have a 60-mile round trip commute, and I'm hoping my wee insight doesn't burst into flames...

 

[Willie Williford]

2006

Your "little scoot" is the lean burn mode kicking out.
What was the codes for the CEL?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Your MPG sounds about right with a new vehicle and probably under 4K miles, plus the cold weather.

 

[kari]

I foolishly didn't think to ask! I called the shop yesterday but it wasn't in the file. I'll check agaain for the code when the parts come in.

I thought that was what the scoot is - now I just have to figure out how to maintain it!

 

[kari]

An update: they did the work on poor little blue yesterday.

After they shut off the light 1 1/2 weeks ago it didn't come back on, which was nice. yesterday they replaced the ECM and the cat.

the code on the invoice (all paid thanks to warrenty, though it would have cost $1400!) was P0116. I didn't see this code in the forums, can anyone fill me in on what it means?

my drive to work seemed to get slightly higher mileage that I'm used to so far. Maybe I just got a bad cat from the factory.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

P0116 is an ECT (Engine coolant temperature) sensor Range / Performance problem.

Hmmm...

Could have been a "bad" ECM and a resulting over-rich condition that damaged the CAT. If the ECM (engine computer) "thinks" that the engine is cold then additional fuel is required, its the physics of a hydrocarbon internal combustion engine. Once the engine is warm this additional amount of fuel is "seen" as excess HC's (Hydrocarbons) and the CAT has to "work" overtime to try and clean them up. Reads like they did some additional CAT testing and determined the "damage" was already advanced so it was replaced _slightly_ prematurely. Saved you another trip for repairs for a P0420 (bad CAT) in the near future.

Definitely unusual for any Honda.

 

[tuna1]

DTC#P0116 ECT Sensor Range/Preformance Problem-unlikely

DTC code#P0116 is for ETC (engine coolant temperature sensor)range /preformance problem.Your engine would be runing too cool or hot and the gauge on the dash should have alerted you,unlikely this was the code.Go back to dealer and get the proper code,all would like to know the correct code.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Unlike older Honda models that had seperate ECT's and gauge temperature senders the Insight shares this sensor. P.g. 80-1 of the ETM

However the "output" to the gauge is from the ECM, not directly from the sender. And the gauges are of the "dumbed down" variety that all cars now use. It costs too much to educate customers that "spikes" with their gauges are normal. So any indication on the gauge could have been subtile or non existant.

Or as tuna1 suggsts they told you the wrong code. And as unusual as this failure sequence is that is a strong possibility.

HTH!

 

[kari]

Re: DTC#P0116 ECT Sensor Range/Preformance Problem-unlikely

DTC code#P0116 is for ETC (engine coolant temperature sensor)range /preformance problem.Your engine would be runing too cool or hot and the gauge on the dash should have alerted you,unlikely this was the code.Go back to dealer and get the proper code,all would like to know the correct code.

I tried to pressure them for the code when I brought it in for repairs and they hadn't written any codes down from the original diagnostic. I'll give them a call this afternoon to see if the ECM could have generated a weird not true code like this. I'd like to know if this is a real code for sure, it would definately impact safe use of an engine block!

I know the temp gauges didn't show anything because I stay pretty glued to it so I know when I can shut off the heat for the autostop. it's always stayed at 6 bars, which is, I think, pretty standard.

 

[tuna1]

Your intial post.......

Kari

I was alittle concern with what you posted intially.That the dealer had you sit around for 3.5 hours to pull a code(not the job for a skilled tech,a newbee could/should have done it),was not customer freindly. The DTC code P0116 by it nature says the sensor was found bad by the correct operation of the ECM.It would be more likely a bad circuit/wire external to the ECM is a problem with this code,and it would not require a ECM to be replaced.

You need to press the service department to look a little deeper into your car's repair as to what was really done to it and why.There should not be any problem in clearing this up to your releif,so you feel confident in their repairs now and down the road. Express it as such,and they should come thur for you!

 

[kari]

thanks, tuna1, that's a good way to present my "case" to them. the dealership is in a busy metro area but they in general have not seemed interested in TRULY helping me either get, or maintain, my insight. there's another dealership that's actually a little closer to me that I ought to be able to use my warrenty at, so that's another point of leverage. I am sure a lot of it is the youngish lady aspect, as much as I hate assume this I am sure they will try to get away with whatever they can with me in order to get to their other customers quicker.

 

[Hegel]

Stupid hazy memory...

Well, as the title of my post suggests, you all might think me a bit wacky, but I figured I'd share my thoughts and see if anybody had a similar experience.

A couple of months ago, I got a letter in the mail asking me to call some phone number and ask to speak to a certain person at Honda (Doug was the name by the way). So I call and it turns out to be a Honda engineer, and he asks me how many miles I had on my car. This was around mid to end of Decemeber, and I bought my car in August, so I told him around 1,500 miles. He then asked me if my CEL had come on at all, I told him no and asked why. I'm 90% sure he responded that apparently there had been a faulty ECM (or was it BCM?) installed on an Insight at the factory, and they were trying to track it down.

Did anyone else get a letter like this in the mail?

When I read Kari's first post and the subsequent replies it got the cogs turning in my head... I guess this is probably unrelated, but now I'm really curious if anybody else got contacted by Honda.

Oh well, now I wish I hadn't thrown that letter away! Argh! :x

take care and good luck kari!

 

[kari]

hegel, that's a great story! I would like to think that's what the problem is -- do you think it applies to a 2006 insight (you've got a 2005, right)?

maybe I should call honda and ask them about that...

 

[Hegel]

Hmmm....

Boy, I wish I had more details to offer other than I got the letter around mid-December and that I talked to somebody named Doug.

Here's some more details, if it helps. I originally put the down payment on my Insight around the first week of June 2005. I was told by my dealership that since their franchise didn't have one in stock, they would have to order it straight from the assembly plant. This ended up taking two months, with me receiving my Insight around the first week of August 2005 (which means my car was assembled approximately around that time I take it).

I know that after talking to Doug in December I was curious as to how they figured out they had installed a faulty part and how they knew in what set of cars they had installed it in. Now I really wished I'd asked

I also wish I'd posted something about that letter on this forum, but what with holidays and being busy and all, I lost track of things. Sigh.