Honda Insight Forum banner

1 - 20 of 222 Posts

·
Lean Burn = Happiness
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My 2001 Insight had all of the recalls done in ~2008 and had the 070MCM/A01BCM, as well as the 37820-PHM-506 version of the ECU/ECM when I got it last August. I have slowly replaced the BCM/MCM to revert to the original versions as I documented in this thread in an effort to maximize MPGs without using the MIMA system. I have peacked in the high 80's to low 90's MPGs while driving on flat open highways at ~45 MPH and that, I thought, was the best I was going to get . . .

The 2000 Insight that I recently bought from Oregon and am fixing up to sell to a relative had no recalls done, and had the original 030MCM/010BCM (which Eli now has ;)). Interestingly, it also had the 37820-PHM-505 version of the ECU/ECM.

Since I am in good with my Honda parts guys and they will chip keys for me free, I figured what the heck and tossed the 505 ECU into my 2001.

I was, and still am, shocked at the result. I got an immediate 8-12 MPG improvement at all speeds! I am now able to drive 55MPH and get mid 90's MPG on my 'flat' commute. Before I had to run a 45MPH target speed (and less on hills) in order to break into the 90+ MPG range. I have never been able to run low 90's MPGs during my normal commute without going VERY slow, and mid/high 90's required the full tank "bump" to achieve.

This was driving home on the 'flat' route at a 55MPH average. This is easily my best MPG ever on this late night run, AND I was going approx 10 MPH faster than normal:



I haven't been able to do a normal 'hilly' route test run (at ~45MPH) where I get my best MPGs, but was able to slow to ~45MPG for a few miles on the 'flat route' during my drive in to work a couple days ago and got this:



I have *never* been over 100 MPG for this type of distance, let alone close to 110!

I've been driving on this ECU for three days now and am still amazed at the increase in #s I am getting. I am seeing this significant improvement at all times and all speeds, regardless of terrain or gear. I am not sure exactly why this jump has occured, but I have noticed that the car will go into lean burn faster/easier, auto stop happens sooner and more often, and purge cycles are much less frequent, but those don't add up to this increase by themselves. There is no difference in power or acceleration, and nothing else on the car has changed. I have intentionally been driving on less then 1/2 tank to ensure the "fill up bump" is not skewing my numbers.

I should be able to get three full test runs next week and will be sure to post those results, but this was too shocking for me to wait anymore.

Needless to say, my relative is not getting this ECU back :p
 

Attachments

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,929 Posts
Crap.. Now I'm going to have to start collecting ECMs.

:D

So you have to re-program your keys when you swap ECMs? I didn't realize that.
 

·
Lean Burn = Happiness
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
So, MY question is, all it took was a 505 version of the ECU??
Correct. That was the only change that I made relative to my prior MPG #s I mentioned. Each ECU has an unique immobilizer chip in it that they keys must match in order for the car to start, so if you buy one online (eBay) make sure you can get a key from the donor car with it. With the key the parts department can copy the "chip" from the donor key to one that has been cut for your car. Without the key it takes the service department to plug into the car with the new ECU in and make a new set of keys (much more $$$).

I also wonder how the 37820-PHM-355 ECU would compare to the *505 revision. Anyone have a *355 laying around (with a donor key) that want me to test? :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Crap.. Now I'm going to have to start collecting ECMs.

:D

So you have to re-program your keys when you swap ECMs? I didn't realize that.
*Goes immediately to Automotive parts on Ebay*:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Correct. That was the only change that I made relative to my prior MPG #s I mentioned. Each ECU has an unique immobilizer chip in it that they keys must match in order for the car to start, so if you buy one online (eBay) make sure you can get a key from the donor car with it. With the key the parts department can copy the "chip" from the donor key to one that has been cut for your car. Without the key it takes the service department to plug into the car with the new ECU in and make a new set of keys (much more $$$).

I also wonder how the 37820-PHM-355 ECU would compare to the *505 revision. Anyone have a *355 laying around (with a donor key) that want me to test? :D
In case the key isn't available, how many of those $$$ are we talking about?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,311 Posts
Hmmmm, now I need to go pull back the passenger foot well cover and get the numbers off of my ECU. I'm curious to see if it has been upgraded since I'm the fourth owner and don't know the complete past history on this vehicle.

EDIT:
So to clarify is the version the number on the sticker like on the BCM/MCM?

I looked at mine and it has this number on it: 39980-S3Y-0032 (Never mind, I got the numbers off of my EPS module)
Does someone have a list of what the different EMC versions are?

Will have to take a better look for the ECU tomorrow when light and access is better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
Crap.. Now I'm going to have to start collecting ECMs.

:D

So you have to re-program your keys when you swap ECMs? I didn't realize that.
Correct. That was the only change that I made relative to my prior MPG #s I mentioned. Each ECU has an unique immobilizer chip in it that they keys must match in order for the car to start, so if you buy one online (eBay) make sure you can get a key from the donor car with it. With the key the parts department can copy the "chip" from the donor key to one that has been cut for your car. Without the key it takes the service department to plug into the car with the new ECU in and make a new set of keys (much more $$$).

I also wonder how the 37820-PHM-355 ECU would compare to the *505 revision. Anyone have a *355 laying around (with a donor key) that want me to test? :D
Some more questions: 1) How would you get the car to the dealer if you couldn't get it started? 2) Has anyone figured out how to bypass the imobilizer?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,929 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,311 Posts
I saw the BCM/MCM spreadsheet (first tab)and saw the ECM's on that list, I didn't see that the ECM has its own tab on the spread sheet also. So is it possible that if I do go through the trouble to dig down to the ECM and get the PN off of it that it could still have a newer version of software loaded onto it that I would be unaware of?

I saw the note on the first tab of the spreadsheet that you need a reader to actually see what version of software you have loaded. Just don't want to tear the car apart to get a PN off the ECM if the version on it is completely different.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,929 Posts
We don't technically really know what the hex code displayed means. We'll have to get more data to see if different ECM revisions have different codes. Only 2002+ ECMs are flashable, so 00 and 01's should be pretty consistent at least.
 

·
Lean Burn = Happiness
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Some more questions: 1) How would you get the car to the dealer if you couldn't get it started? 2) Has anyone figured out how to bypass the imobilizer?
I would assume drive it to the dealer with existing/old ECU & key, then swap it int he parking lot and have the service people do their work. I would recommend calling first to get a quote. I have no idea on the cost, I'll talk to my guy tomorrow morning when I am there to get an estimate.

Yes, the Integra Type R crowd has figured out how to remove/bypass the immobilizer on the ECU/ECM circuit board a few years ago so that the car will run fine, but I believe the Immobilizer light (green key icon) will still be on. I guess you could always remove the bulb . . .
 

·
Lean Burn = Happiness
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Sooooo, would you like to PART with that magical golden ECU???
I saw several on eBay. Strangely I saw many *345 (the one with the o2 sensor bug) and many *506, but no *355 or *505. I think with patience one could be had for cheap . . .
 

·
Lean Burn = Happiness
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
In case the key isn't available, how many of those $$$ are we talking about?
I will talk to my dealer tomorrow to get an idea and report back
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
6,929 Posts
These are the ECM revisions that I found on eBay a couple of weeks ago with a quick look.

Code:
[b]ECM	        Year QTY seen	Notes[/b]
37820-PHM-A53	2001	1	
37820-PHM-505	2000	4	
37820-PHM-316	2001	3	
37820-PHM-345	2001	8	
37820-PHM-A02	2001	4	
37820-PHM-A13 	2002	2	
37820-PHM-A63	2006	1	
37820-PHM-A52	2001	1	Typo?
 

·
Lean Burn = Happiness
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
These are the ECM revisions that I found on eBay a couple of weeks ago with a quick look.

Code:
[b]ECM	        Year QTY seen	Notes[/b]
37820-PHM-A53	2001	1	
37820-PHM-505	2000	4	
37820-PHM-316	2001	3	
37820-PHM-345	2001	8	
37820-PHM-A02	2001	4	
37820-PHM-A13 	2002	2	
37820-PHM-A63	2006	1	
37820-PHM-A52	2001	1	Typo?
Nice. All I've been able to gather/confirm so far is that the *345 was the original on the 2000, and had the o2 bug - and was superceeded by the *355, and the *505 was original on the 2001 and was superceeded by the *506. I am not 100% sure on this, so feel free to confirm/deny. I think the Axx versions are 2002 and later . . .
 

·
Lean Burn = Happiness
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Well chuck what I just said out the window. Per HPN (HondaPartsNow.com) part database:

MY 2000: 37820-PHM-A01, Replaced by: 37820-PHM-355

MY 2001: 37820-PHM-326

MY 2002: 37820-PHM-A14, Replaced by: 37820-PHM-405

MY 2003: 37820-PHM-A14, Replaced by: 37820-PHM-405

MY 2004: 37820-PHM-A16, Replaced by: 37820-PHM-406

MY 2005: 37820-PHM-A21, Replaced by: 37820-PHM-407

MY 2006: 37820-PHM-A25, Replaced by: 37820-PHM-408

I highly doubt this includes all recall/in between versions, but at least it gives us something to work with.
 
1 - 20 of 222 Posts
Top