[brpeterson]

After reading all of the info on the egr-related hesitation issues, I have decided to clean mine. I can't find any info on exactly how to do this, and exactly where the egr is located. Everyone says that it is so easy, but I took of the engine cover and there are a whole bunch of wires, parts and plumbing near the intake on the drivers side. Does anybody have photos, links, or detailed advice? Thanks.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

The complete procedure is outlined in this thread.

viewtopic.php?t=653&start=0

The 5th post in the thread.

But unless you have an _abnormal_ degree of jerking, hesitation, bucking then I doubt it will fix the problem.
The Insight by design has a slight amount especially noticeable under lean burn conditions.
AND since there are multiple overlapping potential sources for this type of symptom I'd recommend investing
in some professional diagnosis before throwing an EGR "fix" at the car.

HTH!

Edit: Fixed broken link

 

[kapps]

We just had Honda replace our EGR valve under warrenty and it makes a huge difference. Acceleration is better and no more herky jerky. Our Insight has been getting slowly worse since it has had 20 or 30k miles. Now with 62k, it was getting pretty bad and Honda agreed. Trekker, thanks for the link, next time this happens, the warrenty will be up and we'll be cleaning it ourselves.

 

[brpeterson]

All that I could find out of that post was some more information about the problem(s) caused clogged-dirty egr valves and plumbing. What does the egr valve look like? Where exaclty is it located? What two bolts need to be removed? I see a tall upright cylinder shape peice near the intake, it has two nuts and a grey wire harness on top. I dont see any input plumbing, which I expect would be there retunrning the exhaust gases, but that seems to be about the correct location. Please help!

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<snip>

What does the egr valve look like? Where exaclty is it located? What two bolts need to be removed? I see a tall upright cylinder shape peice near the intake, it has two nuts and a grey wire harness on top. I dont see any input plumbing, which I expect would be there retunrning the exhaust gases, but that seems to be about the correct location. Please help!

Your really gonna try doing this the hard way?, OK. Your description should be correct for the valve, but its the plumbing that needs to be cleaned. A much more complex task. Yes you do have _limited_ access to one end of the plumbing but it is insufficient to do what is needed. All the chemical cleaners simply forced into this hole as reported in these groups have only had _very_ temporary results.

If your gonna try and become an Insight mechanic then you'll need the textbook. The Honda factory manual is best pg. 9-2 gives the exploded diagram for the EGR & Intake system.

Based on the limits of communication via the written word I'd rather not get you in deeper than your able to handle. Cleaning the EGR plumbing is not a novice task on the Insight.

IF your EGR valve has NOT been replaced it _MAY_ be the sole cause of your symptoms based on numerous postings here. You will need a _NEW_ replacement valve. It is a very basic task and you will remove all doubt of which part you are replacing with a new one in hand.

HTH!

 

[brpeterson]

I bought the car used, I dont know if the valve has been replaced or cleaned. So, as I stated earlier, I would like to try cleaning it. If that does not work, I will move on. As someone else on these boards said, why not first try the easiest and/or cheapest option in a list of potential fixes. I agree with that, so I am looking to clean the valve first. If my problem, which is a slight hesitation under light throttle in usually 4th gear, is not solved by the cleaning, I may need to do more. Thanks

 

[Willie Williford]

Without knowing how the vehicle was driven before you procurred it, the easiest "clean job" would be to DRIVE IT LIKE A RACE CAR for about 50 miles. Get all the carbon inside hot enough so it is either blown out or burned off.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<snip>

the easiest "clean job" would be to DRIVE IT LIKE A RACE CAR for about 50 miles.

<snip>

Spoken like a turbocharged Insight owner! <VBG>

This type of "fix" used to occasionally "work" on older carburetted cars without EGR systems. The type of clogs that occur in EGR systems and EFI systems in general do not respond to this "fix". What you frequently "feel" after such treatment is the shift in the learned values of the fuel management system. Sometimes the car feels noticeably (but slightly) "peppier" for a short while until the values "relax" to fit you normal driving style.

As far as cleaning the EGR valve its most likely an exercise in futility. But the price is right!

HTH!

 

[Rick Reece]

John,
Would a ultasonic bath be good to use on the EGR valve and EGR port assembly. I was thinking this might be good at deep cleaning the passages but am not sure what I should use as a liquid. (avoiding flamable liquids with a ultrasonic cleaning sort of kills the use of carb cleaner). Just looking for a better tool than scratching the surface with a coat hanger etc... Have fun, RIck

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Well,

Hmmm. Such a cleaning system is never used in an automotive application AFAIK. Finding one of a sufficient size to fit the EGR valve and Plate is one problem that comes to mind. As I understand ultrasonic cleaners the high frequency oscillations provide "scrubbing" (mechanical) action and penetrate into crevices otherwise unreachable while being non abrasive. Neither "quality" is especially needed with these two parts (big and the places that need cleaning are sufficiently accessible). Nor is slight abrasion a consideration.

But we're still on a circular path as far as I am concerned.

The valve itself rarely fails due to "stickiness". These newer type electrically actuated valves apparently have other modalities of failure. And its the plumbing that will eventually clog. No doubt about it. Using premium fuel is the only long term _dealying_ intervention that can help *YMMV*.

Will EGR cleaning help? With some uncommon types of failure probably.
Will routine EGR valve cleaning as preventative maintenance help? Very unlikely.

If my car begins to exhibit the EGR symptoms; Hesitation, jerking or bucking I'd probably try cleaning once without any real expectation of success. Then clean the EGR plumbing which requires intake manifold removal for EGR plate access. And finally valve replacement. All the above paragraph with the caveat that there are no codes or other symptoms that indicate EGR valve only failure (e.g. electrical segment).

Anyway back to a direct answer to your question. Can't see it hurting anything, but is it the right tool for the job? Hmmm. Just have to try I guess.
Cleaners that are designed to dissolve carbon buildup should be sufficient and possibly better, basically carburetor cleaner etc. Keep the solvent away from the electrical part of the valve though! Its solvent resistant, but it should not be immersed in solvents not considered safe for electric and plastic components.


HTH!

 

[Allnighte]

is this what anyone elses EGR looks like on the inside? i have a 2001 CVT

i tried cleaning it the carb cleaner way after i took this pic (a while ago) but havent checked on it since. and i know the gasket is bad. i need to find somewhere cheap to get a replacement, but both layers are still there, they're just a little seperated

 

[Calpod]

I don't think it's a dirty valve problem, I think there is not enough clearance between the stem and the guide, so it's binding, that is the reason why soaking it on WD40 works for me, it's still working fine, I'm trying to prove it by lubricating it and seeing how long it really lasts.
By the way I have almost 114K MILES on it.

 

[Resist]

I also have my the jerking problem on my 2001 CVT with only 14,000 miles. When I took it in under warranty the dealership knew exactly what was wrong (so did I but didn't tell them), it was the EGR valve. They replaced it and the jerking was gone. I expect it to happen again down the road. Even though my dealership said the new EGR valve was a different design (which I don't believe).

Some say the carbon build up in the EGR valve can be prevented by using better premium gasoline. Not sure if that is true or not but worth a try.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<snip>

Some say the carbon build up in the EGR valve can be prevented by using better premium gasoline. Not sure if that is true or not but worth a try.

If "they" <g> say prevention then don't believe them.

If they say delay, perhaps for multiple tens of thousands of miles then YMMV, but it has a positive effect.

It is the only thing that can be done short of premature disassembly and cleaning. Which is a RARE form of valve failure.

The WD-40 idea sounds good and no harm can be done. However, if you look at an EGR valve's typical operating temperature then you'd understand the uselessness of the procedure.

HTH

 

[Calpod]

then you'd understand the uselessness of the procedure.

Insightful Trekker did you mean usefullness?
Hope your EGR valve is still working good in 80K more miles, mine is.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

Insightful Trekker did you mean usefullness?
Hope your EGR valve is still working good in 80K more miles, mine is.

Wasn't picking on *anyone* but I ment what was written.

However, with all the variables involved I wouldn't want to discredit your sucess. It's just the "odds" aren't with the rest of us.

We could propose all the theories of why Insight EGR valves have failed that could account for how your WD-40 "treatment" has prevented an otherwise overdue failure. But only Honda know's for sure. <g> (the "updated" PN is the best clue we have)

 

[Calpod]

I believe is the valve sticking rather than being clogged, I have removed clogged EGR valves before, and you cannot see the passages at all.

The Insight valve has some soot, but not enough to fail, I took a small thermocouple wire, and pushed it in the intake manifold passages as far as it would go, and the passages on the intake manifold are not clogged, that's when I started looking for other causes.

I think the information from this may benefit other Insighters.

If you have a chance, take a look at a real cloged EGR valve and passaged from an older vehicle, and that should give you a clue.

 

[Insightful Trekker]

<replied inline>

I believe is the valve sticking rather than being clogged, I have removed clogged EGR valves before, and you cannot see the passages at all.

Newer type clogs tends to be slight and at the end of the line where the passage tends to be the coldest and the soot "freezes". This then causes an EGR flow imbalance in that some of the cylinders get a disproportionate amount of exhaust gas during EGR on time and therefore a lesser fuel air charge resulting in jerking, bucking, hesitation, etc. (a power imbalance) The Insight also has an "unusual" amount of EGR "on" time.

I think the information from this may benefit other Insighters.

Agreed

Your WD-40 treatment does do a good job in dissolving soot that creeps into the pintel shaft. If that's the cause of the EGR failure then regular "cleaning" will keep it at bay. As hot as the pintel gets from direct contact with the exhaust gases any lubrication aspect is rapidly burned off.

And there are other modes of EGR valve failure too. And unless you want to go to the trouble of this higher maintenance plan a replacement valve should be the complete "fix".

HTH!

 

[Calpod]

I have had people ask me about cleaning the EGR valve, I just did mine last weekend, all it takes to remove it is about 5 minutes, first remove the 3 nuts holding the plastic cover on top of the engine, after you remove it you will see the EGR valve on the front side of the engine, disconnect the electrical wire, then remove the two nuts, use a 12mm socket, be careful not to drop them, then remove the EGR valve, turn it over, (there is a picture posted here a couple of posts back, this is the area where you want to spray WD-40, don't be afraid, just fill it up with the spray, let it sit for a few hours, (I usually do it at night and let it sit all night).

After you're done, turn it over, and blow it with compressed air or just clean it with a rag, install it back in the car, and take it for a drive, you should feel the difference right away.

Hope this helps.

 

[meow77]

Good stuff

CALPOD!!!

You know what I did what you said to do on the egr valve and PROBLEM GONE. I took it out gave a really good cleaning with carb cleaner then added the wd40 and let it soak overnight... whatever that stuff does to it works jerking COMPLETELY GONE

I'm posting this so others know that it actually does work and saved me over 400+ on replacing the thing as its not covered under the extended warranty period.

Lastly I want to add for those saying it so "easy" to takde the egr valve off well that may be true if you have mechanical tools... if not be prepared to sweat it out a little especially in taking off the egr valve bolts as those are on pretty tight and no a 12 year old could not do it...