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I had the same pesky engine miss that some have experenced and tried cleaning the EGR valve with good results, at least when first tried. The second day trial period resulted in the same miss and low gas millage. I removed the valve again and recleaned but to no avail. The way I cleaned the valve was to apply 6 volts to the coil, pins 4 and 6, to push the piston out so as to clean as much of the seating surface as posible. I excersized the piston several times and this turns out to be the key to my findings as I'll explain. I have two Insights so rather rush out and buy a new valve I exchanged it with the other cars valve. My problem was solved and low and behold my wife complained when she got home that her mileage had dropped, I didn't think she would notice but she did. I guess I'll have to buy a new one after all. I took the bad valve off to do some testing and here's what I found. While I'm sure most problems with the valve are due to dirty valve seating this wasn't the case here. If you will notice there are 5 pins on the connector. Pin 2 goes to ground, pin 3 goes to a referance voltage, and pin 1 is the common wiper and goes to the ECM. The computer looks at varying voltages which translates to the amount that the valve is open. I hook up the valve as discribed on the test bench and applied 5 volts as the referance pin 3, pin 2 to ground common and looked at the varying voltage at pin 1 as I applied an adjustable power supply to the coil. The valves piston would move out more and more as the voltage increased and the monitored voltage at pin 1 varied in a linear fashion and then an erractic jump. Any body ever had a scratchy throttle position sensor??? My comclusion is that the variable resistor in the EGR valve has a worn spot on it. I'll attempt to open it up but I really think I'm wasting my time, something to play with. I'll be ordering a new valve today.......

Rick Lewis
 

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Excellent detective work, thanks! Please be sure to confirm the problem disappears completely with the new valve.

My problem is not bad yet, but there is definately a stutter or a bit of "bucking" occasionally when I try to find that delicate balance between maximum fuel mileage and not loosing speed. I'd like to eliminate it before it gets worse, and while I don't have a money tree in my backyard, I'm not opposed to spending 150 bucks on a new valve if that's what it takes.
 

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Try cleaning your EGR valve first. There are several places in this forum that explains how and there results. In most cases this seems to be all that's needed and it will probibly last for many thousands of miles if done well. I may have just had a rare case, but I did learn something here and I hope this helps others as well. If at anytime in the future this happens again I will defently try the cleaning methode first.....



Rick Lewis
 

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This is exactly in line with my experience. I cleaned my EGR valve it solved the problem for about 300 miles but then came back worse than before. I then replaced it and have had no further problems since. I concluded that the EGR valves eventually where out and your explanation fits exactly.

David B

2001 CVT 64.3 MPG at 26500 Miles
 
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Hi Cktman:

___I to want to add that you performed some excellent detective work! I was never afflicted with this problem although I know plenty here that were in the past. Was there a particular opening where the wiper’s erratic reading appeared? It might give a clue as to where in the normal driving envelope the jerky EGR behavior might occur if it is bad in someone else’s Insight?

___I remember a Herky/Jerky - EGR type thread from last year where I insinuated that hypermilers might not see an EGR related failure/carbon build up/erratic output due to the EGR being practically closed most of the time but I was using anecdotal evidence instead of any hard data. That is where my question comes from above in regards to the position where the EGR’s erratic voltage output appeared?

___Thanks in advance.

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___[email:2fzm57zk][email protected][/email:2fzm57zk]
 

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When I had my EGR Valve replaced under warranty a while back and asked what would prevent this from happening again, the Dealership actually had the nerve to tell me Honda changed the design. Knowing better, I thought what idiots these people are.
 

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A change in the part number is the indication from Honda that is most commonly given as "notice" of a "change". Its rare for such to be elivated to a higher notification status.

A "design" change can be a subtile as a change in materials of one small sub-component to better resist failure.
 

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Personally I don't believe Honda changed anything in the design of the EGR Valve. And Dealership service departments only know how to remove and replace, not actually "fix" a part. With my warranty now expired, if this problem happens again I will have to clean it myself. But it does influence whether I purchase another Insight down the road, if it still is in production.
 

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Resist said:
Personally I don't believe Honda change anything in the design of the EGR Valve. And Dealership service departments only know how to remove and replace, not actually "fix" a part. With my warranty now expired, if this problem happens again I will have to clean it myself. But it does influence whether I purchase another Insight down the road, if it still is in production.
Then you'd be correct. The "design" hasn't changed.

However, all the may be required is a simple change in alloy of the lift sensor wiper or the temperature resistance of the carbon strip. All relative parts and layout otherwise unchanged.

Disassembly of component parts is no longer cost effective. DIY, maybe.
 

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Hi CKtman,
I'm curious...(My comclusion is that the variable resistor in the EGR valve has a worn spot on it ).....
Have you opened up the EGR unit yet? I would like to know your findings.
Dgate
 

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That's a typical wear item.

I agreee with your findings. The fault can be the 'mechanical' part of the valve being caked up with carbon, which the cleaning process can deal with, but often as not, with a hi mile car like mine (105K) the part that drives the mechanical valve wears at that point where it's used the most, like the level road cruise speed. A lot of other parts tend to wear in one area worse than other 'ranges' of the parts usage, like a throttle position sensor - - those get constant wear from normal driving right in the acceleration and cruise spots.

I didn't notice any way to open up one of these units without using a bandsaw, so that'll be a one time investigation :wink:
 

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Rick, thanks for your detective work. I replaced my EGR valve at 131K miles yesterday. In a short 10 miles of driving since I can definitely say the engine is running more smoothly and no jerking when at low rpm in lean burn. The difference is quite shocking as the valve has degraded over time so I had not really noticed how bad it really was. I did remove the valve around 100K and tried cleaning it. I did not see much if any improvment. I also did not have much carbon buildup. The parts guy at Honda tried to talk me out of replacing the valve because I mainly due highway driving which would not cause a carbon buildup. He had suggested an exhaust test to measure the NO2 to determine if the valve was working correctly. I can only assume that the valve had the electrical problem. I mainly drive in a narrow rpm range which perhaps makes it more prone to fail. I'll be driving several hundred miles today and will see if their is any improvement in mpg. My only regret is that I did not change it earlier and order the part online. If anyone else is thinking of changing theres I would recommend letting the engine cool before doing the job. I had the socket drive shear off trying to loosen the bolts. I wonder if it is designed so that the posts expand more than the nut when hot. After cooling I was able to remove the nuts easier although the socket had rounded the edges a bit from the previous try. Have fun, Rick
 

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cktman said:
The way I cleaned the valve was to apply 6 volts to the coil, pins 4 and 6, to push the piston out so as to clean as much of the seating surface as posible.
I have my EGR valve off as I type. I had reported a couple weeks ago that my jerkyness had disappeared, but came back. So, I'm trying the cleaning route first. I noticed the valve is in the closed position, and I, like you, want to work the piston back and fourth as a part of the cleaning. But I can't figure out which pins are 4 and 6 on the connector! I found the wiring diagram in page 11-19 of my manual, but no numbers there and none on the connector either.

I may get brave enough to experiment, but if anyone can define which pins on the connector control the solenoid that opens and closed the valve, I'd really appreciate it!
-Don

EDIT: Got it. Figured I'd leave this here in case anyone else has the same question. Page 11-208 is the beginning of the EGR System section and defines the pins. I just found that the manual had an index in the back. Duh.

Pins 4 and 6 are the two on the bottom, straddling the missing pin, and have the pink and black wires in the connector.
 

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herky jerky

2001 insight started herky jerky;; took it Tempe Honda and they said check engine light had to come on and had to leave it to re-create in test drive. I have cert. used car warranty and they could not say if was covered. 49000 miles.

So now the check engine light comes on and I take to Honda Cars of Mesa; little bit better reception from Steve, Service Advisor; said EGR, if it was the case had 99% chance of being covered; BUT would have to leave it for a 95.00 analysis;

Called Honda and Honda said not covered by used certified warranty (100K) miles. BUT said may open a case file on problem and cover it under customer courtesy program. Take it in Monday for this problem and recall of multiplex low beam headlight.

Any Comments/advice from anyone would be appreciated. Thank you
 

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Had my EGR replaced at 57K -- not covered by warranty

I recently had my EGR valve replaced also, by the Honda dealership. I was hoping for a warrany replacement or at least some goodwill discount. They told me that if it was at 40-some thousand miles, maybe, but at 57K, they wouldn't cover it. I described the rough running under certain conditions, and suggested it might be the EGR valve. I have no idea if they would have come to that correct conclusion on their own or not. But at least since they did the work, I can take it back to them if I have similar trouble.

In any case, the car runs better then it has since I bought it at 45K last April, so I am happy. :)
 

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egr valve replacement

You might want to call Honda of America in Torrance and ask them to open a case file for goodwill consideration. Naturally, the dealer has no say so in this, thus shortcircuiting the dealers denial. After all, they make more on retail repairs than warranty repairs.

Worth a shot, eh? whattaya got to lose?
 

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If you're unsuccessful getting Honda to pay for this, I'd suggest that if you're mechanically inclined at all you should consider cleaning the valve yourself with WD-40 as documented here in another thread. It worked for me. I cleaned mine about 5 months ago and it's been running smooth as silk ever since.

I didn't believe it would work, but several people suggested trying it before shelling out the bucks for a new valve, and I'm glad I listened.
 

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I followed the WD40 method and it worked a treat for about 3 months and then slowly started to degrade again. The car now has good days and bad days. This is my 2nd valve so I'm starting to get a bit hacked off with it.

I was chatting to a friend of mine the other day who is a mechanic in a Honda main dealer franchise and he says that the problem is also common on the earlier Jazz. [moderator edit]
 

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Off-Topic: Hi Dave, welcome to the forum. Always good to hear from a fellow Insight owner in the UK. Which Insight do you have? (Jap/UK, Year, Colour, Mileage etc?). Please check out the 2006 UK Insight Owners Day topic on this forum, all Insight owners are welcome!
 
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