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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
UPDATE: I experienced significant low RPM herky-jerky with this EGR valve, and put my conventional repaired EGR valve back in.

I took apart a brand new $36 EGR valve intended for an Accord/Odyssey. Inside I found they are using a linear Hall effect sensor and magnet instead of a potentiometer and wiper for the position sensor.

The ohmmeter method of measuring EGR valve sensor position won't work on this kind of valve. I thought I was looking at bad valves until I opened this up. With the potentiometer gone, that point of failure is gone. Perhaps this is an improvement?
 

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I took apart a brand new $36 EGR valve intended for an Accord/Odyssey. Inside I found they are using a linear Hall effect sensor and magnet instead of a potentiometer and wiper for the position sensor.

The ohmmeter method of measuring EGR valve sensor position won't work on this kind of valve. I thought I was looking at bad valves until I opened this up. With the potentiometer gone, that point of failure is gone. Perhaps this is an improvement?
Maybe, but the proof of the pudding is does it work on an Insight?

Since the Insight sensor is fed a 5 volt voltage the hall sensor may be a typical one that outputs 1 volt to 4 volts which may work OK on the Insight.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I took apart a brand new $36 EGR valve intended for an Accord/Odyssey. Inside I found they are using a linear Hall effect sensor and magnet instead of a potentiometer and wiper for the position sensor.

The ohmmeter method of measuring EGR valve sensor position won't work on this kind of valve. I thought I was looking at bad valves until I opened this up. With the potentiometer gone, that point of failure is gone. Perhaps this is an improvement?
Maybe, but the proof of the pudding is does it work on an Insight?

Since the Insight sensor is fed a 5 volt voltage the hall sensor may be a typical one that outputs 1 volt to 4 volts which may work OK on the Insight.
@SSSSSS bought the same valve and reported that it worked and restored a significant amount of MPG. I am putting mine back together and will try it tonight. I need to update my EGR valve tester because I deliberately limited the current to the potentiometer, not knowing there was a version using a Hall effect sensor.
 

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Please update with the exact part number for the valve you bought and your results after testing. Thanks for working on this..
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Please update with the exact part number for the valve you bought and your results after testing. Thanks for working on this..
The EGR valve is a MOSTPLUS part # M21007. I drove around a couple of times today (about 30 miles per run) was averaging 62 MPG round trip (warm, humid day, watching the MPGs, 55 MPH highway + some 35 MPH surface streets, few lights. (I have reason to believe I have a few more things to tweak to get better mileage). The test i'm familiar with is the normal work commute.

I have not put this on the tester because I need to mod the tester to properly power the linear hall effect sensor inside.
 

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Doing a search for Mostplus M21007 I get directed to this one
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33024427484.html MOSTPLUS EGR Exhaust Gas Valve For Honda Accord 1998-2002 Odyssey Oasis CL 18011PAAA00
but the pictures show made in germany and M21007 is missing, when I view the catched webpage from google I get https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5uHoB8dwYAcJ:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MOSTPLUS-EGR-Exhaust-Gas-Valve-For-Honda-Accord-1998-2002-Odyssey-Oasis-CL-18011PAAA00/33024427484.html+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca which does show part number M21007 and a price of $53 and also shows the same picture in the $31 new ad.
The egr valve is also pictured here for $108 pounds https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/mapco-7644962.html


the M21007 is on ebay for $535
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I presume you were getting zero herky jerky?
Is there a good definition of "herky jerky"?

I occasionally get light jerkiness in some regimes, such as lean burn under high load. However, the EGR position voltage suggests that the valve is shut, and it is the LAF sensor current ('04) and injector time which vary quickly (though not much) in that regime.

Unfortunately, OBD2 has such a slow update rate (near that of the jerk frequency) that it prevents correlation of cause (old, laggy LAF?) and possible effect (overshoot of injector amount?)

I have a new injector which would eliminate this as a cause, but I want to make darn sure I don't destroy it by fouling it, so I'll be doing a compression check at the meetup on Saturday. (I think I will be OK).

I am considering building a high frequency data collection harness to log this data in real time along with front-back acceleration data. I have the harness connectors but need some round tuits to get it built.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
@SSSSSS and I got ours from Amazon but it is sold out. I'm not endorsing it, just mentioning where I got it because Peter asked. The valve bound a bit when opening and closing on its side but in the car it will be vertical. I will put it on my tester and make some plots and compare them to @jime 's brand new potentiometer style Honda valve once I update my tester (maybe this weekend).

Doing a search for Mostplus M21007 I get directed to this one
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33024427484.html MOSTPLUS EGR Exhaust Gas Valve For Honda Accord 1998-2002 Odyssey Oasis CL 18011PAAA00
but the pictures show made in germany and M21007 is missing, when I view the catched webpage from google I get https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5uHoB8dwYAcJ:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MOSTPLUS-EGR-Exhaust-Gas-Valve-For-Honda-Accord-1998-2002-Odyssey-Oasis-CL-18011PAAA00/33024427484.html+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca which does show part number M21007 and a price of $53 and also shows the same picture in the $31 new ad.
The egr valve is also pictured here for $108 pounds https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/mapco-7644962.html


the M21007 is on ebay for $535
 

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The lean burn transition with revs around 2000 rpm is a classic zone for jerkiness.

As you rightly point out the EGR gets most of the blame, and it is a weak point with known issues,
but it can also be the LAF (primary O2 sensor) I have changed a few of those with positive results.

The best performance and smoothness of course comes the harmonious interaction of a multitude of parts.
Including having clean egr passages, a good egr, good O2 sensors, clean injectors, good coil packs,
the correct plugs indexed correctly, good fuel and a clean air filter etc etc etc.

If one or more is off it all starts slowly degrading :(

Your testing is interesting keep at it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
The lean burn transition with revs around 2000 rpm is a classic zone for jerkiness.
Can you elaborate more on this, when the EGR is at fault? Is it before or after entry into lean burn, is the engine load (as calculated and reported via OBD live data) high or low, is the EGR supposed to be open or closed?

it can also be the LAF (primary O2 sensor) I have changed a few of those with positive results.
In my case I suspect the LAF because the few times I was watching, the EGR valve position appeared to be closed. (And my EGR was, at its worst, nowhere near the bad ones that Jim had.). The LAFs I have been using have probably about 150K and likely coated with contaminants invreasing the time it takes for the oxygen pump/reference cell to deal with AF ratio changes (my theory at the moment)

The best performance and smoothness of course comes the harmonious interaction of a multitude of parts.
Including having clean egr passages, a good egr, good O2 sensors, clean injectors, good coil packs,
the correct plugs indexed correctly, good fuel and a clean air filter etc etc etc.
Add adjust the valve lash, and maybe the exhaust donut gasket at the flex joint, the filter screen maybe and the common oil leak points, and I think we are looking at the recipe for a "tune-up", something nice as we approach Maintenance Day in Frederick this weekend.

If one or more is off it all starts slowly degrading
Yes; that describes my car. Been slowly peeling the onion since rescuing it and putting it back on the road nine months ago. 🙂

Very much looking forward to meeting you and chatting in Ohio later this summer.
 

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Can you elaborate more on this, when the EGR is at fault? Is it before or after entry into lean burn, is the engine load (as calculated and reported via OBD live data) high or low, is the EGR supposed to be open or closed?
I can't I never really devled into it and recorded data like you.
I just discovered the pot was worn giving erratic readings and went from there.

I suggest you look at the advanced diagnostic pdf available on here for the various fuel/emissions related error codes.
 

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Doing a search for Mostplus M21007 I get directed to this one
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33024427484.html MOSTPLUS EGR Exhaust Gas Valve For Honda Accord 1998-2002 Odyssey Oasis CL 18011PAAA00
but the pictures show made in germany and M21007 is missing, when I view the catched webpage from google I get https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5uHoB8dwYAcJ:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MOSTPLUS-EGR-Exhaust-Gas-Valve-For-Honda-Accord-1998-2002-Odyssey-Oasis-CL-18011PAAA00/33024427484.html+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca which does show part number M21007 and a price of $53 and also shows the same picture in the $31 new ad.



the M21007 is on ebay for $535
The seller on Aliexpress just got back to me and their part IS the Mostplus 21007 and with the seller coupon it is $29.70 delivered

For $30 I will try one.


28/05 2:33 AM

ME: Is this part a Mostplus 21007 or a Mapco 83500?
Read
Cliff Y is here to help you.

Hello dear guest:
Welcome to Folkonroad, we guarantee quality and cheap, and give you the best goods and services.The goods in our shopping malls are all in stock, and will be shipped as soon as possible after the order is placed.Send us a message before the order and after the order, we will help you answer the question as soon as possible.
28/05 7:58 PM

Hi,Which product are you talking about? Let me see it.
7:08 PM

ME: MOSTPLUS EGR Exhaust Gas Valve For Honda Accord 1998-2002 Odyssey Oasis CL 18011PAAA00
Read

Hello dear guest:
Welcome to Folkonroad, we guarantee quality and cheap, and give you the best goods and services.The goods in our shopping malls are all in stock, and will be shipped as soon as possible after the order is placed.Send us a message before the order and after the order, we will help you answer the question as soon as possible.
9:19 PM

Mostplus 21007
 

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Discussion Starter #14
FYI

I have not done enough testing to know if this is a suitable replacement! When manually exercising it with a variable power supply, it was binding when on its side. The hall effect sensor might not provide the same accuracy. I am chasing a new mpg problem with my car which may or may not be EGR related. This part is not specified for the Insight. I only posted the part number for technical completeness while testing.

Doing a search for Mostplus M21007 I get directed to this one
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33024427484.html MOSTPLUS EGR Exhaust Gas Valve For Honda Accord 1998-2002 Odyssey Oasis CL 18011PAAA00
but the pictures show made in germany and M21007 is missing, when I view the catched webpage from google I get https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5uHoB8dwYAcJ:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MOSTPLUS-EGR-Exhaust-Gas-Valve-For-Honda-Accord-1998-2002-Odyssey-Oasis-CL-18011PAAA00/33024427484.html+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca which does show part number M21007 and a price of $53 and also shows the same picture in the $31 new ad.



the M21007 is on ebay for $535
The seller on Aliexpress just got back to me and their part IS the Mostplus 21007 and with the seller coupon it is $29.70 delivered

For $30 I will try one.


28/05 2:33 AM

ME: Is this part a Mostplus 21007 or a Mapco 83500?
Read
Cliff Y is here to help you.

Hello dear guest:
Welcome to Folkonroad, we guarantee quality and cheap, and give you the best goods and services.The goods in our shopping malls are all in stock, and will be shipped as soon as possible after the order is placed.Send us a message before the order and after the order, we will help you answer the question as soon as possible.
28/05 7:58 PM

Hi,Which product are you talking about? Let me see it.
7:08 PM

ME: MOSTPLUS EGR Exhaust Gas Valve For Honda Accord 1998-2002 Odyssey Oasis CL 18011PAAA00
Read

Hello dear guest:
Welcome to Folkonroad, we guarantee quality and cheap, and give you the best goods and services.The goods in our shopping malls are all in stock, and will be shipped as soon as possible after the order is placed.Send us a message before the order and after the order, we will help you answer the question as soon as possible.
9:19 PM

Mostplus 21007
 

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Discussion Starter #17
UPDATE: I experienced significant low RPM herky-jerky with this EGR valve outside of lean burn, and put my conventional repaired EGR valve back in last month. I have not experienced this particular symptom again since.
 
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